Bowman Leaves Detroit

In article <e9a37fa1-395a-4d4e-9284-73bf903f891d
@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, owl <churchsl
@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Actually, between you, me, and Will, a lot of river bottom comes to
>the surface but still doesn't have any closure. It's like a police
>lineup in search of crime, eh? Was Scotty looking for a return to
>active duty - or did the Toronto fiasco trash his relationship with
>the Detroit Org.? Did Peddie delay the issue to death, or did
>Tannenbaum go rogue on the process again? ... or neither or both?

Heh.

I don't think Scotty's relationship with the Wings was affected. He was
working with them at his own discretion, free to come or go. I think the
chance to work, and most likely end his career, with his son in Chicago
was an opportunity he couldn't pass up. I'm sure the fact Chicago is
looking like they will have a very good team down the road a bit, didn't
escape him either.

The situation in Toronto reminds me of the old saying, a camel is a horse
designed by committee. Where's Ballard when you need him ? <g>

Jim
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"foamy" <bombelly.RemoveThis@sulet.ten> wrote in message
news:wVtmk.4973$nu6.4110@edtnps83...
> In article <mY2dnWFez_BLuAfVnZ2dnUVZ_
> gudnZ2d.RemoveThis@comcast.com>, "Will" <will.RemoveThis@will.not> wrote:
>
>>As you can see from the article that the process never got very far, not
>>to
>>the point of the Peddie saying "sure, you have the job" as you wrote
>
> I never said Peddie said Bowman had the job, I said Peddie indicated he
> would be amenable to giving whoever was hired the same autonomy as
> Colangelo. That's what Bowman wanted.
>
> . The
>>Leafs wanted a consultant,
>
> Peddie might have wanted a consultant, the rest of the board wanted
> a superboss, someone other than Peddie running the show.
>

That's public knowledge, doesn't mean that Bowman was desired for the
"superboss" job. There are factors that work against him in that area not
the least of which is age and 20 years since he had managerial
responsibilities and definitely none in the cap era.

> Bowman wanted more power and money to leave
>>Detroit, no deal. If you have a source for JFJ being brought into the
>>discussions, let's have it.
>
> The source was contained in your post, whenre it quoted Peddie as saying
> he felt they should go with the status quo. That was in direct reference
> to
> Bowman's assertions he would clean house from JFJ through the coaching
> staff.
>

The whole point of a "superboss" is to let him run the team as he sees fit.
To me the status quo thing meant that they were not prepared to give him the
President/GM job for reasons that went beyond the fate of one guy, i.e. my
statement above about his qualifications.
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On Aug 7, 1:52 am, bombe... RemoveThis @sulet.ten (foamy) wrote:

> The situation in Toronto reminds me of the old saying, a camel is a horse
> designed by committee.

So true. The radio yesterday had some guy (590?) talking about the
Leafs surprising everyone and being in the hunt for a playoff spot and
the town getting all feverish and the deadline approaching and ...
then the light turned green.
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In article <R82dnXBcwpMQqgbVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@
comcast.com>, "Will" <will.DeleteThis@will.not> wrote:

>That's public knowledge, doesn't mean that Bowman was desired for the
>"superboss" job. There are factors that work against him in that area not
>the least of which is age and 20 years since he had managerial
>responsibilities and definitely none in the cap era.

Well ' superboss ' was my word for someone to run the show without
Peddie who knows dick about hockey, second guessing or over-riding
his decisions.

Scotty's age and experience are an asset not a negative or something
to fear. He knows what it takes to be a winner and as he's been associated
with some of the most successful franchises in the history of the game,
and knows how a winning operation should be set up. He'd hire qualified
capable respected people and let them do their job.

>The whole point of a "superboss" is to let him run the team as he sees fit.
>To me the status quo thing meant that they were not prepared to give him the
>President/GM job for reasons that went beyond the fate of one guy, i.e. my
>statement above about his qualifications.

It's not like his age or any of the other things you mention as being
negatives all of a sudden appeared after Peddie met with him.

Scotty: Pleased to meet you.

Peddie: Oh my God ! You're old.

I don't think if it was God Peddie was prepared to abandon his ego trip and
give up control. To the public he said could and would, to the public he made
up an excuse for not doing so by the status quo remark, it's too close to camp
to make sweeping changes blah blah. But it was all bs imo.

Jim
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"foamy" <bombelly.RemoveThis@sulet.ten> wrote in message
news:yBImk.4690$%b7.2936@edtnps82...
> In article <R82dnXBcwpMQqgbVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@
> comcast.com>, "Will" <will.RemoveThis@will.not> wrote:
>
>>That's public knowledge, doesn't mean that Bowman was desired for the
>>"superboss" job. There are factors that work against him in that area not
>>the least of which is age and 20 years since he had managerial
>>responsibilities and definitely none in the cap era.
>
> Well ' superboss ' was my word for someone to run the show without
> Peddie who knows dick about hockey, second guessing or over-riding
> his decisions.
>
> Scotty's age and experience are an asset not a negative or something
> to fear. He knows what it takes to be a winner and as he's been associated
> with some of the most successful franchises in the history of the game,
> and knows how a winning operation should be set up. He'd hire qualified
> capable respected people and let them do their job.
>

His age and experience make him a great candidate for an adviser but
necessarily a president/GM. There is a lot of stress related to the job and
a lot more work than he has done for an extended period of time and at this
point is he even up to it? Anyway, having a guy who you know is on his last
job being in charge of a rebuild who has never been responsible for a
rebuild is kind of a strange situation. Yes, he can delegate but Detroit
isn't going to let him take people with him. They already said no to
Toronto and other highly qualified people aren't necessarily going to be
available either..

>>The whole point of a "superboss" is to let him run the team as he sees
>>fit.
>>To me the status quo thing meant that they were not prepared to give him
>>the
>>President/GM job for reasons that went beyond the fate of one guy, i.e. my
>>statement above about his qualifications.
>
> It's not like his age or any of the other things you mention as being
> negatives all of a sudden appeared after Peddie met with him.
>
> Scotty: Pleased to meet you.
>
> Peddie: Oh my God ! You're old.
>
> I don't think if it was God Peddie was prepared to abandon his ego trip
> and
> give up control. To the public he said could and would, to the public he
> made
> up an excuse for not doing so by the status quo remark, it's too close to
> camp
> to make sweeping changes blah blah. But it was all bs imo.
>

I don't think that Peddie was willing to give up control either but that he
was told to give up control. It's going to happen but just not with Scotty.
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On Aug 8, 12:11 pm, "Will" <w....TakeThisOut@will.not> wrote:

> His age and experience make him a great candidate for an adviser but
> necessarily a president/GM.  There is a lot of stress related to the job and
> a lot more work than he has done for an extended period of time and at this
> point is he even up to it?  Anyway, having a guy who you know is on his last
> job being in charge of a rebuild who has never been responsible for a
> rebuild is kind of a strange situation.

So they got Flinch ...
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"owl" <churchsl RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:acef7713-3a9b-46af-8eb9-0bbb53eeab44@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 8, 12:11 pm, "Will" <w... RemoveThis @will.not> wrote:

> His age and experience make him a great candidate for an adviser but
> necessarily a president/GM. There is a lot of stress related to the job
> and
> a lot more work than he has done for an extended period of time and at
> this
> point is he even up to it? Anyway, having a guy who you know is on his
> last
> job being in charge of a rebuild who has never been responsible for a
>> rebuild is kind of a strange situation.

>So they got Flinch ...

He wasn't supposed to be around this long as GM, the new guy was supposed to
have been hired after the season with Fletcher moving to a consultant
position.

Looks like Burke, he has Nonis there to take over and he got his buddy Randy
Carlyle a two year extension so I guess it is up to Anaheim how long they
will keep the lame duck around.
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On Aug 8, 2:43 pm, bombe....TakeThisOut@sulet.ten (foamy) wrote:

> ... I don't think Bowman was the right guy for the job
> anyway. I don't recall him doing anything special as a GM in Buffalo.]

Leafs used the same firm that got them Colangelo. The parameters were
best guy in the business. The answer (twice) was Scotty Bowman.

> A rumour was going around the leaves were about to hire their man, but
> it seems to me the way they've gone about this is they'll wait for Burke.

Burke ain't comin. It'll be back in the headcase lines once the Mats
story finishes.
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On Aug 8, 4:07 pm, "Will" <w....RemoveThis@will.not> wrote:
> "owl" <churc....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:acef7713-3a9b-46af-8eb9-0bbb53eeab44@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 8, 12:11 pm, "Will" <w....RemoveThis@will.not> wrote:
>
> > His age and experience make him a great candidate for an adviser but
> > necessarily a president/GM. There is a lot of stress related to the job
> > and
> > a lot more work than he has done for an extended period of time and at
> > this
> > point is he even up to it? Anyway, having a guy who you know is on his
> > last
> > job being in charge of a rebuild who has never been responsible for a
> >> rebuild is kind of a strange situation.
> >So they got Flinch ...
>
> He wasn't supposed to be around this long as GM, the new guy was supposed to
> have been hired after the season with Fletcher moving to a consultant
> position.

Iow, they got exactly where they would have been if Scotty had agreed
to reporting to Peddie ... which Flinch agreed to during a lip-synch
session maybe. I hear what you're posting, but none of the actions
have matched the words and plans for quite some time now.

> Looks like Burke, he has Nonis there to take over and he got his buddy Randy
> Carlyle a two year extension so I guess it is up to Anaheim how long they
> will keep the lame duck around.

From here, Burke is a dead storyline. Dryden pulled off a minor
miracle pulling the franchise up out of the muck ... and now it's back
there. Even BBurke probably doesn't see a pony under all the
horsespit, eh? (then again, I figured the original media smoke-
signals about Bowman were nonsense.)
 >> Stay informed about: Bowman Leaves Detroit 

On Aug 8, 6:13 pm, bombe... RemoveThis @sulet.ten (foamy) wrote:
> In article <4f025e38-bb52-4842-876b-2b55dff03eb8
> @k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, owl <churchsl

> >Burke ain't comin.  It'll be back in the headcase lines once the Mats
> >story finishes.
>
> I don't know why you say this. Unless you're saying they wouldn't hire him.
>
> I'm a Canuck fan in Vancouver and I know Burke very well. [ not on a
> personal basis ].

He was great there, and he made a real impact on TSN between jobs.

> The Toronto position is perfect for him physically and psychologically.

That's where we disagree. MLSE has taken on the profile of a
byzantine cesspool - and Bryan Burke isn't a janitor.

> He would love to live in the east ... visit his kids ... get a TV job for his wife ...

He can do all that with another team or back on the TSN circuit. For
that matter, he could replace Cherry on HNIC.

> From a psychological perspective, Burke loves nothing more than a challenge,
> the more difficult the better.

Winners like to win. Winners want to be in cities where the fans are
committed to wanting to win. Toronto is in a very, very, strange
place these days - they're debating whether winning is a good idea.
Guys on radio programs are hoping Sundin doesn't come back to the
Leafs because they'd be too good.

> He loves turning things around, taking lemons
> and making lemonade so to speak, which is exactly what he did in Vancouver.

Everyone there wanted to win.

> The Canucks were going through a bad time in their history when the team
> didn't perform well and the building was half-full some nights. The owner was
> losing 20-30 mill a year. In a few short years the building was sold out [ I
> think they're sitting at something like 285 consecutive sellouts now ], they
> were making money, and the Canucks were division winners and competitive
> in their conference.

Burke's the best bet around. If he's moving, the Leafs won't be the
only wooers ... but they'll probably have the least to offer. Where
could he go, you say? How bout next GM in either NYR (Sathers last
hurrah) or Red Wings (Holland goes back west)?

It's just scuttle time, I have no idea what Burke's thoughts or plans
are - or would be if he doesn't remain with the Ducks (a choice
situation if there ever was one) and moves East (based on your
thoughts).
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In article <h8SdnS4oPfn_7QHVnZ2dnUVZ_
vninZ2d.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>, "Will" <will.TakeThisOut@will.not> wrote:

They already said no to
>Toronto and other highly qualified people aren't necessarily going to be
>available either..

I assume you are referring to the Wings denying Toronto permission to talk
to Jim Nill ? That was he strangest thing. I've never heard of a GM refusing
to let teams talk to an assistant for a possible promo to a higher position.

Well, if there's no qualified people for Bowman to hire, there's no
qualified people for the leafs to hire, sans Bowman. I'd rather have
Bowman and an unqualified guy, than just an unqualified guy. [ but
having said this, I don't think Bowman was the right guy for the job
anyway. I don't recall him doing anything special as a GM in Buffalo.]

>I don't think that Peddie was willing to give up control either but that he
>was told to give up control. It's going to happen but just not with Scotty.

A rumour was going around the leaves were about to hire their man, but
it seems to me the way they've gone about this is they'll wait for Burke.

Jim
 >> Stay informed about: Bowman Leaves Detroit 

In article <4f025e38-bb52-4842-876b-2b55dff03eb8
@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, owl <churchsl
@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Aug 8, 2:43=A0pm, bombe....TakeThisOut@sulet.ten (foamy) wrote:
>
>> ... I don't think Bowman was the right guy for the job
>> anyway. I don't recall him doing anything special as a GM in Buffalo.]
>
>Leafs used the same firm that got them Colangelo. The parameters were
>best guy in the business. The answer (twice) was Scotty Bowman.

I don't know what best guy in the business means, but Scotty sure ain't the
best in the business at anything other than coaching. It took him to be GM to
make him the coach, miss the playoffs for the only time in his coaching
career.

>> A rumour was going around the leaves were about to hire their man, but
>> it seems to me the way they've gone about this is they'll wait for Burke.
>
>Burke ain't comin. It'll be back in the headcase lines once the Mats
>story finishes.


I don't know why you say this. Unless you're saying they wouldn't hire him.

I'm a Canuck fan in Vancouver and I know Burke very well. [ not on a
personal basis ].

The Toronto position is perfect for him physically and psychologically. He
would love to live in the east. He has kids living in Boston from a previous
marriage, and from the time of the breakup promised them he would visit them
twice a month. He's kept his promise and flown back east every couple weeks
for 3 days each. His new wife Jenny, is from Vancouver and has done radio and
tv, currently having a local tv show. She has flown up to Vancouver every week
to tape her show. In tToronto Burke would be a short distance from Boston and
Rogers no doubt would get Jenny a local gig.

From a psychological perspective, Burke loves nothing more than a challenge,
the more difficult the better. He loves turning things around, taking lemons
and making lemonade so to speak, which is exactly what he did in Vancouver.
The Canucks were going through a bad time in their history when the team
didn't perform well and the building was half-full some nights. The owner was
losing 20-30 mill a year. In a few short years the building was sold out [ I
think they're sitting at something like 285 consecutive sellouts now ], they
were making money, and the Canucks were division winners and competitive
in their conference.

Jim
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Preacher <sdean53NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@nospamcogeco.ca> trolled:

[top-posting deleted, unread]

We'll have to resurrect the old community killfile concept...

cordially, as always,

rm
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