Welcome to HockeyForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Embarrassingly Bad

 
   Hockey Forums (Home) -> San Jose Sharks RSS
Next:  Drew  
Author Message
tack

External


Since: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:13 am
Post subject: Embarrassingly Bad
Archived from groups: alt>sports>hockey>nhl>sj-sharks (more info?)

I watched the entirety of last night's game capitvated by the huge
gulf between Detroit and San Jose. It was almost as if watching one
of those old, staged games between the Harlem Globetrotters and the
Washington Generals. Each move of Detroit (the "Trotters") a
picturesque play, exceuted with fluid grace. Each effort of San Jose
(the "Generals") almost like a parody of the game, executed in
varying degrees of ineptitude. Really, like watching professionals
play some small-town pick-up squad, who, although perhaps talented in
the raw, had never been taught to play a cohesive team game.

The Sharks were so bad, so ineffectual, that it's hard to talk about
almost any aspect of the game. I mean you wouldn't dissect the play
of your local high school if they got to play an exhibition against a
pro team, right? That the Sharks got three goals was more a testament
to Detroit's boredom and momentary sloppy play than any asserted
effort by the Sharks. One came away with the feeling that Detroit
could have scored ten goals, fifteen, if that's what it took to
dispatch the Sharks. They just toyed with them all night.

Folks, there is one large problem, now, perhaps, joined by another.
First, RW just doesn't have them ready or mentally fit to play the
games, especially against any more elite teams. Their feet just don't
touch the ice expecting to win, and it shows. Second, this team, as
consituted, just isn't that good. There are far too many hackers out
there, who just take up space, and the handful of players that were
supposed to blossom, just don't have the heart or guts to play a
tough, physical game, which is the only substitute they might have for
the kind of talent and finesse displayed by Detroit, representing what
true talent (and good coaching) looks like.

That the Sharks overall record and standing in the league is as high
as it is is really some kind or miracle, in a way, and wholly
dependent on the past airtight defense. Now, that that's gotten
suddenly porous, they look downright pitiful. (I might insert here
that the goals piling up are less Nabby's fault then a complete
breakdown of the team's game. He's been hung out to dry, not getting
beaten on soft goals.)

One could go on and on lamenting, but I'll close. There's no sense
trying to find individual points. The whole perpetual inconsistency
and lost-in-space style of the team's play suggests that major changes
are needed, not a study of fine points in game films. They look like
an organization that's clueless to any avenue of escape from repeating
the same errors endlessly and unwilling to make any changes to find it.

 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
MS

External


Since: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 82



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Embarrassingly Bad [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Whenever the Sharks play Detroit you see how far away they are from
being a cup contender and what they need to do to become one.


On 2008-01-20 05:13:00 -0800, tack <thetacker RemoveThis @gmail.com> said:

> I watched the entirety of last night's game capitvated by the huge
> gulf between Detroit and San Jose. It was almost as if watching one
> of those old, staged games between the Harlem Globetrotters and the
> Washington Generals. Each move of Detroit (the "Trotters") a
> picturesque play, exceuted with fluid grace. Each effort of San Jose
> (the "Generals") almost like a parody of the game, executed in
> varying degrees of ineptitude. Really, like watching professionals
> play some small-town pick-up squad, who, although perhaps talented in
> the raw, had never been taught to play a cohesive team game.
>
> The Sharks were so bad, so ineffectual, that it's hard to talk about
> almost any aspect of the game. I mean you wouldn't dissect the play
> of your local high school if they got to play an exhibition against a
> pro team, right? That the Sharks got three goals was more a testament
> to Detroit's boredom and momentary sloppy play than any asserted
> effort by the Sharks. One came away with the feeling that Detroit
> could have scored ten goals, fifteen, if that's what it took to
> dispatch the Sharks. They just toyed with them all night.
>
> Folks, there is one large problem, now, perhaps, joined by another.
> First, RW just doesn't have them ready or mentally fit to play the
> games, especially against any more elite teams. Their feet just don't
> touch the ice expecting to win, and it shows. Second, this team, as
> consituted, just isn't that good. There are far too many hackers out
> there, who just take up space, and the handful of players that were
> supposed to blossom, just don't have the heart or guts to play a
> tough, physical game, which is the only substitute they might have for
> the kind of talent and finesse displayed by Detroit, representing what
> true talent (and good coaching) looks like.
>
> That the Sharks overall record and standing in the league is as high
> as it is is really some kind or miracle, in a way, and wholly
> dependent on the past airtight defense. Now, that that's gotten
> suddenly porous, they look downright pitiful. (I might insert here
> that the goals piling up are less Nabby's fault then a complete
> breakdown of the team's game. He's been hung out to dry, not getting
> beaten on soft goals.)
>
> One could go on and on lamenting, but I'll close. There's no sense
> trying to find individual points. The whole perpetual inconsistency
> and lost-in-space style of the team's play suggests that major changes
> are needed, not a study of fine points in game films. They look like
> an organization that's clueless to any avenue of escape from repeating
> the same errors endlessly and unwilling to make any changes to find it.

 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Mr. T

External


Since: Dec 01, 2005
Posts: 281



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Embarrassingly Bad [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 20, 7:07 am, MS <n....TakeThisOut@attbi.com> wrote:
> Whenever the Sharks play Detroit you see how far away they are from
> being a cup contender and what they need to do to become one.
>
> On 2008-01-20 05:13:00 -0800, tack <thetac....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> said:
>
> > I watched the entirety of last night's game capitvated by the huge
> > gulf between Detroit and San Jose. It was almost as if watching one
> > of those old, staged games between the Harlem Globetrotters and the
> > Washington Generals. Each move of Detroit (the "Trotters") a
> > picturesque play, exceuted with fluid grace. Each effort of San Jose
> > (the "Generals") almost like a parody of the game, executed in
> > varying degrees of ineptitude. Really, like watching professionals
> > play some small-town pick-up squad, who, although perhaps talented in
> > the raw, had never been taught to play a cohesive team game.
>
> > The Sharks were so bad, so ineffectual, that it's hard to talk about
> > almost any aspect of the game. I mean you wouldn't dissect the play
> > of your local high school if they got to play an exhibition against a
> > pro team, right? That the Sharks got three goals was more a testament
> > to Detroit's boredom and momentary sloppy play than any asserted
> > effort by the Sharks. One came away with the feeling that Detroit
> > could have scored ten goals, fifteen, if that's what it took to
> > dispatch the Sharks. They just toyed with them all night.
>
> > Folks, there is one large problem, now, perhaps, joined by another.
> > First, RW just doesn't have them ready or mentally fit to play the
> > games, especially against any more elite teams. Their feet just don't
> > touch the ice expecting to win, and it shows. Second, this team, as
> > consituted, just isn't that good. There are far too many hackers out
> > there, who just take up space, and the handful of players that were
> > supposed to blossom, just don't have the heart or guts to play a
> > tough, physical game, which is the only substitute they might have for
> > the kind of talent and finesse displayed by Detroit, representing what
> > true talent (and good coaching) looks like.
>
> > That the Sharks overall record and standing in the league is as high
> > as it is is really some kind or miracle, in a way, and wholly
> > dependent on the past airtight defense. Now, that that's gotten
> > suddenly porous, they look downright pitiful. (I might insert here
> > that the goals piling up are less Nabby's fault then a complete
> > breakdown of the team's game. He's been hung out to dry, not getting
> > beaten on soft goals.)
>
> > One could go on and on lamenting, but I'll close. There's no sense
> > trying to find individual points. The whole perpetual inconsistency
> > and lost-in-space style of the team's play suggests that major changes
> > are needed, not a study of fine points in game films. They look like
> > an organization that's clueless to any avenue of escape from repeating
> > the same errors endlessly and unwilling to make any changes to find it.

True, but even so I found last night's game pretty entertaining.
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Tom Conner

External


Since: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Line change rules [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Duane" <letskeepit DeleteThis @posting4now.com> wrote in message
news:2ot7p31g1ojoqm7802k0m0060lb6uo38e4@4ax.com...
>
> One last thing, Wilson never really tries to match up his lines. Other
> coaches do, and that's why Lidstrom was out there virtually every
> shift where Joe was out. RW has last change at home, and he should
> use it to his advantage.
>

What are the rules for changing lines? Being new to hockey I have been
thinking they could switch players whenever they wanted, except after icing.
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Keith Keller

External


Since: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 455



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Line change rules [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 2008-01-21, Tom Conner <tconner DeleteThis @olopha.net> wrote:
>
> What are the rules for changing lines? Being new to hockey I have been
> thinking they could switch players whenever they wanted, except after icing.

That's pretty much true during play. During a stoppage, they have a
given amount of time to change freely, then the ref will signal to the
road team for last change, then to the home team for their last change.
So the home team knows what line the road team is putting out and can
choose the line to go against it if the coach wants, but they have to
decide relatively quickly. This is what's called "matching lines".
Some coaches, when the road team, will attempt to counter by doing a
quick change on the fly after the puck is dropped.

--keith


--
kkeller-usenet DeleteThis @wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Tom Conner

External


Since: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Line change rules [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Keith Keller" <kkeller-usenet DeleteThis @wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote in message
news:l8kd65xtb3.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us...
> On 2008-01-21, Tom Conner <tconner DeleteThis @olopha.net> wrote:
> >
> > What are the rules for changing lines? Being new to hockey I have been
> > thinking they could switch players whenever they wanted, except after
icing.
>
> That's pretty much true during play. During a stoppage, they have a
> given amount of time to change freely, then the ref will signal to the
> road team for last change, then to the home team for their last change.
> So the home team knows what line the road team is putting out and can
> choose the line to go against it if the coach wants, but they have to
> decide relatively quickly. This is what's called "matching lines".
> Some coaches, when the road team, will attempt to counter by doing a
> quick change on the fly after the puck is dropped.
>
>

Does there have to be a minimum amount of time left in the game when the ref
decides that it is time for the last change?
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
MS

External


Since: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 82



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Line change rules [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 2008-01-20 21:01:38 -0800, "Tom Conner" <tconner.DeleteThis@olopha.net> said:

>
> "Keith Keller" <kkeller-usenet.DeleteThis@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:l8kd65xtb3.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us...
>> On 2008-01-21, Tom Conner <tconner.DeleteThis@olopha.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the rules for changing lines? Being new to hockey I have been
>>> thinking they could switch players whenever they wanted, except after
> icing.
>>
>> That's pretty much true during play. During a stoppage, they have a
>> given amount of time to change freely, then the ref will signal to the
>> road team for last change, then to the home team for their last change.
>> So the home team knows what line the road team is putting out and can
>> choose the line to go against it if the coach wants, but they have to
>> decide relatively quickly. This is what's called "matching lines".
>> Some coaches, when the road team, will attempt to counter by doing a
>> quick change on the fly after the puck is dropped.
>>
>>
>
> Does there have to be a minimum amount of time left in the game when the ref
> decides that it is time for the last change?

The home team gets to make the last line switch at every time stoppage,
not just at the end of the game.
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Keith Keller

External


Since: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 455



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Line change rules [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 2008-01-21, Tom Conner <tconner.DeleteThis@olopha.net> wrote:
>
> Does there have to be a minimum amount of time left in the game when the ref
> decides that it is time for the last change?

It's the last change for *every* stoppage. I forget exactly how
long teams have, but I think the road team gets about 20 seconds before
the ref disallows further changes, and the home team gets an extra 15-20
seconds.

--keith

--
kkeller-usenet.DeleteThis@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Mark

External


Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 65



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Embarrassingly Bad [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 20, 6:17 pm, tack <thetac....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> The entire team is in such a hurry to give up the puck

Hey Tack.... I think that's all you need to say. To me, that's the
whole thing. There's almost NO possession. Dump and Lose, or when on
a power play (which has shown some improvement) no movement by players
off the puck so the guy with the puck gets swarmed.... D-Men left
alone back by their own net with nobody to pass to. Weak-ass clearing
attempts. Totally uncoordinated attempts to move from the neutral
zone into the offensive zone. Guys breaking into the offensive zone,
but nobody following them in!

If you don't have the puck, keep (control) it, and go to the net as a
team, you're probably gonna lose.
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Mr. T

External


Since: Dec 01, 2005
Posts: 281



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Embarrassingly Bad [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 21, 3:35 pm, Mark <itsmarkwag....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 20, 6:17 pm, tack <thetac....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The entire team is in such a hurry to give up the puck
>
> Hey Tack.... I think that's all you need to say. To me, that's the
> whole thing. There's almost NO possession. Dump and Lose, or when on
> a power play (which has shown some improvement) no movement by players
> off the puck so the guy with the puck gets swarmed.... D-Men left
> alone back by their own net with nobody to pass to. Weak-ass clearing
> attempts. Totally uncoordinated attempts to move from the neutral
> zone into the offensive zone. Guys breaking into the offensive zone,
> but nobody following them in!
>
> If you don't have the puck, keep (control) it, and go to the net as a
> team, you're probably gonna lose.

And another big part of the equation: Drew mentioned Ron Wilson likes
to keep the shifts short. Not really like, love, or is completely
obsessed with, is closer to the truth.

Some times there is no one helping in the offensive and/or defensive
zone as you mention because guys are continually changing up with less
regard to the situation on the ice than IMO is reasonable.
 >> Stay informed about: Embarrassingly Bad 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Hockey Forums (Home) -> San Jose Sharks All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]