Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it?

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT), Stu Katz
<carpman76 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 9, 10:12 am, Mike <m... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> 100 year anniversary - might be the time to take your best shot Bob. I
>> kinda expect a big splash given this is the big year.
>>
>> However, does he have the $$ and cap space - imagine signing Sundin and
>> Hossa?
>>
>> Hossa-Sundin-Koivu
>> Kovalev-Pleks-Kostitsyn
>>
>> Will that do it or should he chase one of Sundin/Hossa and a big D signing?
>
>I don't think Hossa is what we need. I would go after him as a last
>resort. And for your enjoyment purposes I've compiled a list of 3
>moves that would get this team to be a serious contender.
>

After re-signing the players that he needs to re-sign my best guess is
that Gainey will have $4 to $8 million to spend in free agency if the
cap doesn't go up.

He might be able to sign one premium forward but not two.

I expect our team to improve next season through maturation. People
raved about Pittsburg and Philly being good young teams. Pittsburg
had 7 players 25 and under, philly had 8 and our Habs had 11.

The team improved over the course of the season last year and I expect
them to do the same next year. I expect them to be the top scoring
team in the league again but by a wider margin. The addition of either
Sundin or Hossa could make them #1 with a bullet.

I'd love to see Gaborik in the bleu-blanc-rouge but I think Gainey
ought to be patient. A trade for Gaborik would cost us several
prospects at this point in time. I think it might be wiser to either
wait till summer and try to sign him as a UFA or try for a trade
deadline trade.

That would allow time to give prospects a little more seasoning.
Gainey would have a better idea of what the team really needs and the
trade might cost us just 2 instead of 3 prospects.


>1. Sundin (#1 free agent priority)
>
>2. Swing a trade with Minnesota. The history is there between BG and
>Riesbrough, (how many times did we see MIN scouts scouting Habs games
>and vice versa) for Marian Gaborik. The Habs would have to give up a
>couple of defence prospects (O'Byrne, MacDonough, Fisher, Vaentenko,
>Emelin) and a pick or a prospect at forward. Gaborik is currently at
>7.5M, is entering his UFA year and wasn't exactly thrilled to hear
>that Lemaire is returning as coach. If he can stay healthy he would
>really fit into the Habs lineup and be that impact forward.
>
>3. Let me preface this one by saying I know it will never happen: Sign
>Jeff Carter as an RFA. Let's see young, big, leader, RIGHT HANDED
>CENTER, isn't this what Gainey's been chasing since day 1 on the job?
>Would eventually become the #1 center and possible captain. His
>playoff performance only added to his value after a season that almost
>saw him score 30 goals (29). Maybe a trade?
>
>As far as the Habs signing a big D, I don't think it will happen. I
>think Gainey's philosophy (as well as many top GM's) is to hoard
>defencemen and defence prospects as bargaining chips to trade for
>established forwards. Gainey's big D signing may actually end up being
>Mark Streit.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT), Stu Katz
<carpman76.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 9, 10:12 am, Mike <m....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 100 year anniversary - might be the time to take your best shot Bob. I
>> kinda expect a big splash given this is the big year.
>>
>> However, does he have the $$ and cap space - imagine signing Sundin and
>> Hossa?
>>
>> Hossa-Sundin-Koivu
>> Kovalev-Pleks-Kostitsyn
>>
>> Will that do it or should he chase one of Sundin/Hossa and a big D signing?
>

My feelings wouldn't be hurt at all if Gainey stands pat. We have
several young players who could break out next season:

Andrei Kostitsyn could score 35-40 goals
Plekanec could hit the 80 point mark
Sergei Kostitsyn could get 60-70 points
Latendresse might stick on a top line and get 50-60 points with 30
goals
Ryder might return to form
And nobody knows what Grabovsky could do

Last year we had 7 players who got 50 points or more. Next year we
might have 7 players with 60 points.


>I don't think Hossa is what we need. I would go after him as a last
>resort. And for your enjoyment purposes I've compiled a list of 3
>moves that would get this team to be a serious contender.
>
>1. Sundin (#1 free agent priority)
>
>2. Swing a trade with Minnesota. The history is there between BG and
>Riesbrough, (how many times did we see MIN scouts scouting Habs games
>and vice versa) for Marian Gaborik. The Habs would have to give up a
>couple of defence prospects (O'Byrne, MacDonough, Fisher, Vaentenko,
>Emelin) and a pick or a prospect at forward. Gaborik is currently at
>7.5M, is entering his UFA year and wasn't exactly thrilled to hear
>that Lemaire is returning as coach. If he can stay healthy he would
>really fit into the Habs lineup and be that impact forward.
>
>3. Let me preface this one by saying I know it will never happen: Sign
>Jeff Carter as an RFA. Let's see young, big, leader, RIGHT HANDED
>CENTER, isn't this what Gainey's been chasing since day 1 on the job?
>Would eventually become the #1 center and possible captain. His
>playoff performance only added to his value after a season that almost
>saw him score 30 goals (29). Maybe a trade?
>
>As far as the Habs signing a big D, I don't think it will happen. I
>think Gainey's philosophy (as well as many top GM's) is to hoard
>defencemen and defence prospects as bargaining chips to trade for
>established forwards. Gainey's big D signing may actually end up being
>Mark Streit.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

On Jun 9, 10:12 am, Mike <m....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> 100 year anniversary - might be the time to take your best shot Bob. I
> kinda expect a big splash given this is the big year.
>
> However, does he have the $$ and cap space - imagine signing Sundin and
> Hossa?
>
> Hossa-Sundin-Koivu
> Kovalev-Pleks-Kostitsyn
>
> Will that do it or should he chase one of Sundin/Hossa and a big D signing?

He should have around $12M to spend, give or take a bit depending on
where the cap ends up and how much of a cushion he decides to keep.

That assumes no re-signing of our UFAs, though. Including Streit.

He should indeed chase a forward and a d-man IMHO. One big stud
forward would be good. Sundin is ideal there in my estimation,
primarily because he's not likely to need a long-term contract, and
while we have tons of cap space this year coming, we probably will be
in a really tight squeeze and faced with some heartbreaking decisions
in Summer '09. So just having Sundin on a 1-year deal for a big
Centennial run would be the best option, rather than having somebody
like a Hossa on a 4- or 5-year deal that hurts us in terms of
retaining some other guys down the road.

The D wouldn't necessarily need to be a "big name". Just somebody
solid to round out our top-4. If you're paying that guy somewhere
around $3-4M and Sunding something up to $8M, then that's basically
got our cap space right there.

l8r,
Gerry
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

On Jun 9, 1:07 pm, Stu Katz <carpma... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Sundin (#1 free agent priority)

100% agreed.

> 2. Swing a trade with Minnesota. The history is there between BG and
> Riesbrough,  (how many times did we see MIN scouts scouting Habs games
> and vice versa) for Marian Gaborik.

Hrm, if you say that Hossa isn't what we need, then I'm not sure how
Gaborik qualifies. Gaborik is "fancier" - which doesn't attract me
more, and he's more "fragile" too. I don't think I'd chase after
Gaborik very hard.

Mind you, when the trade deadline arrives, and the cap damage due to
picking up a big name diminishes, well, the Habs will hopefully be in
a good position to think very carefully about whether they want to
really "go for it" and perhaps spend some of their prospect depth
dealing for some big name impending-UFAs. I don't know if Minnesota
will be a team in a position to make that kind of move or not, it's
pretty much impossible to predict. But for sure there will be some
teams and some players ready to make that kind of deal, and if we've
left ourselves just enough cap room to take one of those late
additions for a big run, that'll definitely be a fun topic of debate
for us early in 2009.

> 3. Let me preface this one by saying I know it will never happen: Sign
> Jeff Carter as an RFA. Let's see young, big, leader, RIGHT HANDED
> CENTER, isn't this what Gainey's been chasing since day 1 on the job?
> Would eventually become the #1 center and possible captain. His
> playoff performance only added to his value after a season that almost
> saw him score 30 goals (29). Maybe a trade?

I can't see why Philly wouldn't just keep him or match any offer to
him, really. They have ways of freeing up the cap space. I guess I
don't see much value in evaluating options or setting even #3
priorities on things that we know will never happen.

> As far as the Habs signing a big D, I don't think it will happen. I
> think Gainey's philosophy (as well as many top GM's) is to hoard
> defencemen and defence prospects as bargaining chips to trade for
> established forwards. Gainey's big D signing may actually end up being
> Mark Streit.

Hopefully if he signs Streit it won't qualify as "big". But there are
a number of #3-4 types I'd probably take over Streit if it came down
to it. Also not qualifying as "big". $3-4M tops on the guy, a lot
less than that if it's Streit.

l8r,
Gerry
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

On Jun 9, 10:12 am, Mike <m....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> 100 year anniversary - might be the time to take your best shot Bob. I
> kinda expect a big splash given this is the big year.
>
> However, does he have the $$ and cap space - imagine signing Sundin and
> Hossa?
>
> Hossa-Sundin-Koivu
> Kovalev-Pleks-Kostitsyn
>
> Will that do it or should he chase one of Sundin/Hossa and a big D signing?

With UFAs I hope he goes big, or none at all. Sign players who will
have an impact on the core of the team. Don`t waste money on Smokes,
Dandaneault type veterans. No reclaimation or change of scenery type
players, go for players coming of good years rather then ones who may
have played on a cup winner, but watched most of the series either
from the pressbox or the far end of the bench. They should have enough
3rd and 4th line depth to let them fight it out for a position during
training camp.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

"Jim Herriot" <bimpsyno.RemoveThis@spamsasktel.net> wrote in message
news:agsq445jqvc3efedhrq9m2smmesj6ut1d7@4ax.com...
> My feelings wouldn't be hurt at all if Gainey stands pat. We have
> several young players who could break out next season:
>
> Andrei Kostitsyn could score 35-40 goals
> Plekanec could hit the 80 point mark
> Sergei Kostitsyn could get 60-70 points
> Latendresse might stick on a top line and get 50-60 points with 30
> goals
> Ryder might return to form
> And nobody knows what Grabovsky could do
>
> Last year we had 7 players who got 50 points or more. Next year we
> might have 7 players with 60 points.

Ryder might return to form, but what uniform will he be wearing? Based on
his numerous appearances in the press box and not on the bench last season,
I think it's a pretty good bet that he will be on Bell Centre ice as a
member of the visiting team next season (I'm guessing Boston). I'd actually
be shocked if he did come back.

As for Gainey standing pat, I don't think he will. There will be holes to
fill, in net maybe if Halak doesn't want to be an NHL back-up. But there
will be spots available, up front especially. He won't make a huge splash,
but I expect him to do another Hamrlik-like signing, one where most people
look at it on the surface as questionable, but at the end of the season
works just like Bob thought it would work.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

Jim Herriot wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT), Stu Katz
> <carpman76.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 9, 10:12 am, Mike <m....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 100 year anniversary - might be the time to take your best shot Bob. I
>>> kinda expect a big splash given this is the big year.
>>>
>>> However, does he have the $$ and cap space - imagine signing Sundin and
>>> Hossa?
>>>
>>> Hossa-Sundin-Koivu
>>> Kovalev-Pleks-Kostitsyn
>>>
>>> Will that do it or should he chase one of Sundin/Hossa and a big D signing?
>
> My feelings wouldn't be hurt at all if Gainey stands pat. We have
> several young players who could break out next season:
>
> Andrei Kostitsyn could score 35-40 goals
> Plekanec could hit the 80 point mark
> Sergei Kostitsyn could get 60-70 points
> Latendresse might stick on a top line and get 50-60 points with 30
> goals
> Ryder might return to form
> And nobody knows what Grabovsky could do

I don't think we'll ever see Lats put up any significant numbers to be
honest. I've never been a big fan of this guy and last year didn't do
anything to sway me. He had plenty of chances to impress with Koivu and
in the end he was bumped by little Tits. I just do not know what he
brings to the table. His skating ability is awful and because of that he
just cannot get to that open spot quickly enough. He doesn't seem to
want to plonk himself in front of the net and take the beating he'll get
by playing in front of the other goalie. His shot is average at best -
so what does this guy do for the team? I don't know.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

On Jun 10, 7:16 am, Mike <m....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jim Herriot wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT), Stu Katz
> > <carpma....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 9, 10:12 am, Mike <m....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> 100 year anniversary - might be the time to take your best shot Bob. I
> >>> kinda expect a big splash given this is the big year.
>
> >>> However, does he have the $$ and cap space - imagine signing Sundin and
> >>> Hossa?
>
> >>> Hossa-Sundin-Koivu
> >>> Kovalev-Pleks-Kostitsyn
>
> >>> Will that do it or should he chase one of Sundin/Hossa and a big D signing?
>
> > My feelings wouldn't be hurt at all if Gainey stands pat.  We have
> > several young players who could break out next season:
>
> > Andrei Kostitsyn could score 35-40 goals
> > Plekanec could hit the 80 point mark
> > Sergei Kostitsyn could get 60-70 points
> > Latendresse might stick on a top line and get 50-60 points with 30
> > goals
> > Ryder might return to form
> > And nobody knows what Grabovsky could do
>
> I don't think we'll ever see Lats put up any significant numbers to be
> honest. I've never been a big fan of this guy and last year didn't do
> anything to sway me. He had plenty of chances to impress with Koivu and
> in the end he was bumped by little Tits. I just do not know what he
> brings to the table. His skating ability is awful and because of that he
> just cannot get to that open spot quickly enough. He doesn't seem to
> want to plonk himself in front of the net and take the beating he'll get
> by playing in front of the other goalie. His shot is average at best -
> so what does this guy do for the team? I don't know.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How fast does someone have to skate to park himself in front of the
net? 5 on 5 how many shots did Koivu's line ever get get even
strength? Having 3 players throw the puck around the perimeter did
little to make Koivu's line much of a scoring threat.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it? 

Chuck wrote:
>>> And nobody knows what Grabovsky could do
>> I don't think we'll ever see Lats put up any significant numbers to be
>> honest. I've never been a big fan of this guy and last year didn't do
>> anything to sway me. He had plenty of chances to impress with Koivu and
>> in the end he was bumped by little Tits. I just do not know what he
>> brings to the table. His skating ability is awful and because of that he
>> just cannot get to that open spot quickly enough. He doesn't seem to
>> want to plonk himself in front of the net and take the beating he'll get
>> by playing in front of the other goalie. His shot is average at best -
>> so what does this guy do for the team? I don't know.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> How fast does someone have to skate to park himself in front of the
> net? 5 on 5 how many shots did Koivu's line ever get get even
> strength? Having 3 players throw the puck around the perimeter did
> little to make Koivu's line much of a scoring threat.

What did Latendresse do this year that would make you sit back and take
notice? Did he show a quick and accurate shot? Nope. An ability to catch
anyone other than Youppi? Nope. Did he distinguish himself as the guy
who parks his ass in front of the net to scoop up the garbage? Nope. How
about a 3rd line banger. Did he show he had that ability on more than
the odd occasion? Nope. Power play specialist? Nope. Penalty killer? Nope.

Look, the thing of it is that he was tried on what was the #1 line with
Koivu and he didn't work out. He was tried with other combinations and
it didn't work consistently anywhere. He won't go to the net, he can't
skate fast enough to play with any of our fast skaters, he can't shoot
the puck or at least hasn't shown a consistent ability to do so, on the
3rd line he shows occasional flashes that maybe he might be a slow
version of Darcy Tucker minus the attitude. So what do you do with the
guy? We've all been listening for 2 years now about this kid and what
great things he might do. Well, its almost year 3 - don't ya think its
time he showed something, anything on a nightly basis?

I say package him, Grabs and Halak for a trade.
 >> Stay informed about: Does Gainey have the $$$ to go for it?