Jaromir Jagr

Bender wrote:
> I read in one of the many blogs today that Renney-bott has decided to
> throw Gomez back on the top line, bump Drury to the second line, and
> fit Dubinsky down on the third line. I like this move, because it
> puts a veteran playmaker in between Jagr and Straka, and it gives
> Dubinsky a chance to define himself as a player, rather than trying to
> fit him into a Jaromir Jagr assist machine.
>
> I then continued to read, and found out that Jagr was more or less
> "disconsolate" at the idea of being paired with Gomez again, and it
> made me a little angry.
>
> Where does Jagr get off designing his own line anymore? He was
> pleased with Dubinsky, but what benefit did that have to the team at
> all? The first line continues to be horrid. Is Jagr just going to
> mentally shut down now, because he's not paired with whomever he
> thinks he should be paired with? What effect will this have on his
> teammates, who see their captain buckle at the non-issue of lines?
>
> As someone who watched 60 minutes of every game between 1998 and 2003,
> you can believe me when I say that I appreciate what Jagr did for the
> Rangers. He deserves a lot of respect from the fans for that
> (Lundqvist too but everyone knows that), but at the same time it's
> foolish for him to think that what's best for him is automatically
> what's best for the team. His defeatist attitude isn't going to make
> him or the team any better, and I think if it gets to the point where
> he's given up on himself, then something needs to be done to make sure
> that he doesn't spread that mentality to the rest of the clubhouse.

Agree with what you've said.

Why is it that Drury is never an option to center Jagr?

Seems that the only options have been Gomez or Dubinsky this year.

At this point, why not just have Straka center the line with Prucha on
the left side.. could it possibly be any worse? Prucha has become
irrelevant - maybe a change of lines would do him some good as well.

-Chaz
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"Bender" <Jeffrey.S.Morrison.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:83f03c2e-dee9-4dcb-90cf-205c510cea8a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I read in one of the many blogs today that Renney-bott has decided to
> throw Gomez back on the top line, bump Drury to the second line, and
> fit Dubinsky down on the third line. I like this move, because it
> puts a veteran playmaker in between Jagr and Straka, and it gives
> Dubinsky a chance to define himself as a player, rather than trying to
> fit him into a Jaromir Jagr assist machine.
>
> I then continued to read, and found out that Jagr was more or less
> "disconsolate" at the idea of being paired with Gomez again, and it
> made me a little angry.
>
> Where does Jagr get off designing his own line anymore? He was
> pleased with Dubinsky, but what benefit did that have to the team at
> all? The first line continues to be horrid. Is Jagr just going to
> mentally shut down now, because he's not paired with whomever he
> thinks he should be paired with? What effect will this have on his
> teammates, who see their captain buckle at the non-issue of lines?
>
> As someone who watched 60 minutes of every game between 1998 and 2003,
> you can believe me when I say that I appreciate what Jagr did for the
> Rangers. He deserves a lot of respect from the fans for that
> (Lundqvist too but everyone knows that), but at the same time it's
> foolish for him to think that what's best for him is automatically
> what's best for the team. His defeatist attitude isn't going to make
> him or the team any better, and I think if it gets to the point where
> he's given up on himself, then something needs to be done to make sure
> that he doesn't spread that mentality to the rest of the clubhouse.

While I agree with what you have said mostly, it really isn't anything new
here about Jagr. When things are as he likes, he won't complain much. When
things aren't as he likes, he'll moan. But him not wanting Gomez as his
center is fairly predictable. It's not a match. What's worse, from Jagr's
standpoint, is that Gomez forces him to play a radically different game. It
probably forces him to make adjustments on a consistent basis that he might
not be able to make anymore.

Anything's worth a shot but it didn't work before and it's not going to work
this time in all likelihood. It's going to take Renney a while to figure out
that things aren't going to work the way he and management had envisioned at
the start of the season. They are going to have to come to grips with the
fact that while Jagr is with the team, they signed themselves a couple of
massively overpaid second/third line players. And no matter how they turn
the square block, it isn't going to fit into the small circular hole.

If it were me, I'd have Straka centering Jagr and Drury (with Drury taking
important faceoffs). Maybe I'd even try Shanny on the left wing there. Avery
in the lineup makes things a lot easier. In spite of what some people think
about his actual talent and ability, the Rangers scoring depth not only
places Avery right on the second line, but it also exposes how desperately
they need his offensive contribution when he is out.

Prucha, Hossa, Callahan and the other youngsters can't fill the offensive
need for the top two lines at this time. They just aren't ready to step up
in that way. Especially the way the offense is constructed. It betrays the
few abilities that a guy like Prucha does have to score whenever possible.
The Rangers don't really have the cap room to sign anybody that is sure to
help. And making a deal at this point in the season is very difficult given
their cap situation as well as the situation of other teams.

I wonder if they ever consider just trying different young guys from the
Wolfpack just to see if there is any instant chemistry. It's entirely
possible that a guy like Anisimov may instantly have the type of chemistry
with Jagr that other centers don't. Hence, enhancing his readiness to
contribute more than that of other young players that may in actuality be
generally more prepared to play in the NHL. I assume they wouldn't move up a
young player if they felt that it might somehow regress his development or
hurt him in the long run.

They certainly have quite a pickle on their hands. They are walking a
tightrope right now. And they are teetering on a complete collapse.
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On Dec 17, 10:48 pm, "GS" <goldstand....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can only comment from an outsiders perspective, but take the case of Mats
> Sundin. This guy has been paired with every scrub that has gone through the
> Leafs org in the past decade, and yet continues to produce, and has never
> once complained about anything, let alone line combos. It baffles me that a
> guy as skilled as Jagr (more skilled than Mats, at least until he started
> pouting last season), can't make it work with ANYONE out there. Add to this
> the whole shoot-out issue, and his general attitude.. as you mentioned, how
> can this not affect the rest of the team?

That's why I think the entire thing (or at least 95% of it) is
mental. Jagr is kind of like a redwood tree on ice skates. He can
dominate if he wants to, and it doesn't matter who else is out there.
I don't understand why he needs someone who "thinks like him" to be
successful. Guys pass to other guys. You get in position to accept a
pass. You carry the puck where you want it. Talented guys are better
at converting your passes or getting you passes, but realistically
Renney should be able to put Orr and Hollweg on his lines, and Jagr
should be able to bounce a few goals in off their skates.

Jagr just seems to have a lot of emotional problems that effect his
game. It's frustrating.
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On Dec 18, 7:49 am, Chaz <gomets2....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why is it that Drury is never an option to center Jagr?

That's the option that most fans want, but to be fair to Renney, you
have to consider the fact that Drury has looked more or less dreadful
this year. Is that because he's not played with anyone, or because
he's got a lot more stress now, bad luck, or something else? Who
knows. It's insane to be paying him what they are and to stick him on
the third line. Make him earn that money.
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On Dec 18, 10:09 am, "kovy" <s....RemoveThis@happy.com> wrote:
> While I agree with what you have said mostly, it really isn't anything new
> here about Jagr. When things are as he likes, he won't complain much. When
> things aren't as he likes, he'll moan. But him not wanting Gomez as his
> center is fairly predictable. It's not a match. What's worse, from Jagr's
> standpoint, is that Gomez forces him to play a radically different game. It
> probably forces him to make adjustments on a consistent basis that he might
> not be able to make anymore.

His moaning has no point, though. It's like me moaning because
someone didn't leave a sack full of money on my front porch this
morning. I can waste away my day angry because I don't have a sack
full of money, or I can discount that completely from my life. Jagr
gets sacks full of money dropped off, but then complains they're the
wrong kind of sack.

He either convinced himself that he can't be good unless his linemates
are the perfect fit, or he's using it as a sort of excuse to mask his
own play. During the Ottawa win a while ago, he was incredible. The
next game against Carolina, he was terrible. Nothing at all changed,
so what the hell happened? It makes no sense at all.

I just don't understand the point of trying to please him anymore. He
clearly has the ability still, he just won't turn it on very often.

> Anything's worth a shot but it didn't work before and it's not going to work
> this time in all likelihood. It's going to take Renney a while to figure out
> that things aren't going to work the way he and management had envisioned at
> the start of the season. They are going to have to come to grips with the
> fact that while Jagr is with the team, they signed themselves a couple of
> massively overpaid second/third line players. And no matter how they turn
> the square block, it isn't going to fit into the small circular hole.

I have a feeling Renney wasn't very happy about the signings. I'm not
sure why... he just doesn't seem that interested in planning a game
plan around those two. I wonder what the relationship between Sather
and Renney is like. I have a feeling that Renney isn't allowed to
speak out of turn.

> They certainly have quite a pickle on their hands. They are walking a
> tightrope right now. And they are teetering on a complete collapse.

The way this season is going is making me angry, because it feels like
one of those awful squads from a few years ago. The worst case
scenario is that they're not good enough to make the playoffs, but
just good enough to miss it by a point or so. So next year it's more
of the same, trying to find the right combination of free agents to
put them over the top.

I'm frustrated.
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On Dec 18, 12:24 pm, "IommiRULES" <spamt....DeleteThis@bird.net> wrote:
> If Jagr "Mentally" shuts down as you put it, this team is toast, they are
> floundering already, I think the guy has a little more pride than that tho.
> He has to turn it up SEVERAL notches from here on out, not shutdown, he
> already is having perhaps his worst season, if you do not count his time
> with the Caps.

He's either in the process of shutting down, or has already. What
kind of leader and captain looks disconsolate because he's getting
paired with a different center? What athlete wouldn't look at a
chance like that to improve himself? Dubinsky clearly doesn't work,
so why not be glad that maybe a change of pace will work out better
for the team? Why is it automatically a crushing blow to him? It's
nonsensical thought.

> Defeatist Attitude? You mean like this NG!

If you don't expect them to win the Stanley Cup then you're a bad fan.
 >> Stay informed about: Jaromir Jagr 

"Bender" <Jeffrey.S.Morrison.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:83f03c2e-dee9-4dcb-90cf-205c510cea8a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I read in one of the many blogs today that Renney-bott has decided to
> throw Gomez back on the top line, bump Drury to the second line, and
> fit Dubinsky down on the third line. I like this move, because it
> puts a veteran playmaker in between Jagr and Straka, and it gives
> Dubinsky a chance to define himself as a player, rather than trying to
> fit him into a Jaromir Jagr assist machine.

Dubinsky looked good for awhile on the first line but he has regressed, the
problem here is what the the problem was originally with this combo...Gomez,
Jagr and Straka are all playmakers, Altho I guess you could argue Nylander,
Straka and Jagr were as well.

>
> I then continued to read, and found out that Jagr was more or less
> "disconsolate" at the idea of being paired with Gomez again, and it
> made me a little angry.
>
> Where does Jagr get off designing his own line anymore? He was
> pleased with Dubinsky, but what benefit did that have to the team at
> all? The first line continues to be horrid. Is Jagr just going to
> mentally shut down now, because he's not paired with whomever he
> thinks he should be paired with? What effect will this have on his
> teammates, who see their captain buckle at the non-issue of lines?

If Jagr "Mentally" shuts down as you put it, this team is toast, they are
floundering already, I think the guy has a little more pride than that tho.
He has to turn it up SEVERAL notches from here on out, not shutdown, he
already is having perhaps his worst season, if you do not count his time
with the Caps.


>
> As someone who watched 60 minutes of every game between 1998 and 2003,
> you can believe me when I say that I appreciate what Jagr did for the
> Rangers. He deserves a lot of respect from the fans for that
> (Lundqvist too but everyone knows that), but at the same time it's
> foolish for him to think that what's best for him is automatically
> what's best for the team. His defeatist attitude isn't going to make
> him or the team any better, and I think if it gets to the point where
> he's given up on himself, then something needs to be done to make sure
> that he doesn't spread that mentality to the rest of the clubhouse.

Defeatist Attitude? You mean like this NG!
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"kovy" <so.RemoveThis@happy.com> wrote in message
news:4767fe46$0$5092$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> "Bender" <Jeffrey.S.Morrison.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:83f03c2e-dee9-4dcb-90cf-205c510cea8a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> If it were me, I'd have Straka centering Jagr and Drury (with Drury taking
> important faceoffs). Maybe I'd even try Shanny on the left wing there.

I'm not one for editing Novels, but this is the "line" that makes sense out
of yours.
I agree.
See how simple it is to agree?
 >> Stay informed about: Jaromir Jagr 

On 2007-12-18, IommiRULES <spamthis RemoveThis @bird.net> wrote:
>
> If Jagr "Mentally" shuts down as you put it, this team is toast, they are
> floundering already, I think the guy has a little more pride than that tho.

You mean like all the pride he had in Washington?

> He has to turn it up SEVERAL notches from here on out, not shutdown, he
> already is having perhaps his worst season, if you do not count his time
> with the Caps.

Oh, good, you didn't forget Washington!

I really doubt if pride is going to make him decide to turn it up
several notches, or even SEVERAL.

> Defeatist Attitude? You mean like this NG!

Hey, we follow our captain.

--keith

--
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(try just my userid to email me)
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On Dec 18, 3:31 pm, Roger Sherman <slammingroo....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, so you watched, what, like 10 seconds per game?

Sure
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On Dec 17, 10:03 pm, Bender <Jeffrey.S.Morri... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> I read in one of the many blogs today that Renney-bott has decided to
> throw Gomez back on the top line, bump Drury to the second line, and
> fit Dubinsky down on the third line. I like this move, because it
> puts a veteran playmaker in between Jagr and Straka, and it gives
> Dubinsky a chance to define himself as a player, rather than trying to
> fit him into a Jaromir Jagr assist machine.
>
> I then continued to read, and found out that Jagr was more or less
> "disconsolate" at the idea of being paired with Gomez again, and it
> made me a little angry.
>


Gomez goal! Assist Jagr! Renney is a genius!
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On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:03:55 -0800 (PST), Bender
<Jeffrey.S.Morrison DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>As someone who watched 60 minutes of every game between 1998 and 2003,

Wow, so you watched, what, like 10 seconds per game?

peace,

Rog
http://republicanforaday.com/
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On Dec 18, 5:45 pm, Bender <Jeffrey.S.Morri... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 3:31 pm, Roger Sherman <slammingroo... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow, so you watched, what, like 10 seconds per game?
>
> Sure

Now if On The Fly existed then, it would all be honky dory.
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