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Since: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 44
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:52 pm
Post subject: Laraque in doghouse
Archived from groups: alt>sports>hockey>nhl>mtl-canadiens (more info?)
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So I read that Laraque is in the doghouse, and if you read between the
lines it seems Carbonneau is starting to question his groin injury. I'm
wondering if he's questioning whether Laraque is stupidly bringing
himself back too early all the time and playing injured, never letting
the groin fully heal, or is he questioning whether Laraque's injury is as
severe as he let's on. The 2nd scenario is by far the more troublesome.
Some quotes:
--------------
Carbonneau also announced that winger Georges Laraque will be placed on
the injured reserve list and will return to Montreal. "He hasn't been
able to play two games in a row for us and we have to get to the bottom
of this," Carbonneau said of Laraque's recurring groin problem.
--------------
Laraque's wonky groin has landed him on the injured reserve list and head
coach Guy Carbonneau's frustration with the fragile tough guy was evident
when he said: "We've talked to him and we want him to give us eight, nine
minutes a game, but he can't play two games in a row."
--------------
Laraque played for the Penguins last season and his absence was no
surprise to at least one of his former teammates.
When Sidney Crosby was told Laraque was out of the lineup, he asked: "The
groin again?"
--------------
I look at last years stats and he missed only about 8 games because of
the groin injury, all early in the year. So I don't know what to make of
it all. My first instinct is he's not ready to start the season and is
suceptible to groin injuries because of it. That compounded this season
by not being smart about getting it healed. He seems willing to play one
game, then not practice or play the next. I guess Carbonneau is
frustrated that he can't count of Laraque to properly manage his own
injury, take the rest needed so that he can get in the line-up regularly
as expected. Overall, I think the signing made sense, but what Laraque
has given so far is very little for whatever reason. Injury mismanagement
or a hint of laziness, Laraque has to smarten up.
Marty |
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 30, 2:52 pm, marty wrote:
> So I read that Laraque is in the doghouse, and if you read between the
> lines it seems Carbonneau is starting to question his groin injury.
The problem with reading between the lines is that it's not very
reliable. I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just saying there are
other, less dramatic interpretations.
>I'm
> wondering if he's questioning whether Laraque is stupidly bringing
> himself back too early all the time and playing injured, never letting
> the groin fully heal, or is he questioning whether Laraque's injury is as
> severe as he let's on. The 2nd scenario is by far the more troublesome.
> Some quotes:
>
> --------------
> Carbonneau also announced that winger Georges Laraque will be placed on
> the injured reserve list and will return to Montreal. "He hasn't been
> able to play two games in a row for us and we have to get to the bottom
> of this," Carbonneau said of Laraque's recurring groin problem.
To me, that's just a coach saying that they need to give him an
extended rest and figure out what exactly the problem is. Maybe it's
truly a recurring problem, maybe he hasn't given it enough rest, maybe
it hasn't been properly diagnosed.
> --------------
> Laraque's wonky groin has landed him on the injured reserve list and head
> coach Guy Carbonneau's frustration with the fragile tough guy was evident
> when he said: "We've talked to him and we want him to give us eight, nine
> minutes a game, but he can't play two games in a row."
It's frustrating for a coach to not be able to count on a player,
regardless of the reason.
> --------------
> Laraque played for the Penguins last season and his absence was no
> surprise to at least one of his former teammates.
>
> When Sidney Crosby was told Laraque was out of the lineup, he asked: "The
> groin again?"
This seems perfectly innocent to me. Crosby was TOLD that Laracque
wasn't playing, and asked whether it was the groin, because he's aware
the guy has had problems like that in the past. If your co-worker
tells you his mother is in the hospital, and you ask "her heart
again?" because you recall him telling you last year about her having
a heart problem, you're not implying anything, just making a
reasonable inference.
> I look at last years stats and he missed only about 8 games because of
> the groin injury, all early in the year. So I don't know what to make of
> it all. My first instinct is he's not ready to start the season and is
> suceptible to groin injuries because of it. That compounded this season
> by not being smart about getting it healed. He seems willing to play one
> game, then not practice or play the next. I guess Carbonneau is
> frustrated that he can't count of Laraque to properly manage his own
> injury, take the rest needed so that he can get in the line-up regularly
> as expected. Overall, I think the signing made sense, but what Laraque
> has given so far is very little for whatever reason. Injury mismanagement
> or a hint of laziness, Laraque has to smarten up.
Well, I'd agree that he needs to take some time off, get whatever
medical opinions and tests are appropriate, and then go from there.
Sure, it might be that he hasn't taken proper care of himself or is
lazy, but I'm reluctant to draw that conclusion without better
evidence. It could just as easily be poor medical advice, or the guy
just has a bad groin, the way some guys have a bad knee or back or
whatever.
Jim |
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 4:02 pm, marty wrote:
> I think I'm on solid ground when I say the consensus with most groin
> injuries is that the key to recovery is something like this:
I haven't the slightest clue about groin injuries. I'm not a doctor,
nurse, physical therapist, or otherwise qualified to opine on the
subject.
> Anyway, this was based on Hickey's article titled that Laraque was in the
> doghouse, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb figuring he's inferred
> something from Carbo's tone or some off-the-record rumblings as well as
> the actual quotes.
I don't think you're way out on a limb; I just think it's not the only
conclusion that can be drawn.
>Hickey's not a rumour machine, so I give what he says
> credence.
Hickey's also not infallible. And reporters, rumor-mongers or not,
like to write interesting stories. "Habs are pissed at Laracque" is a
more interesting story than "Habs being patient with Laracque," so
it's human nature for Hickey to be more inclined to the former than
the latter.
That doesn't mean he's wrong. And it would probably be better to put
one's money on his interpretation than mine, because all I have to go
on is the written word. I just wouldn't put TOO much money on it.
Jim >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 200
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 8:33 pm, marty wrote:
> j.ba....RemoveThis@comcast.net wrote innews:c0858929-7666-471c-8b43-53cf4c27ed45@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Dec 30, 4:02 pm, marty wrote:
> >> I think I'm on solid ground when I say the consensus with most groin
> >> injuries is that the key to recovery is something like this:
>
> > I haven't the slightest clue about groin injuries. I'm not a doctor,
> > nurse, physical therapist, or otherwise qualified to opine on the
> > subject.
>
> Oh come on. You're not a paid hockey analyst either, but you offer your
> opinion on hockey, don't you? I offer my opinion on this based on the
> many different articles and references to groin injuries and how players
> deal with them. If you're a hockey fan and you can read, you know
> *something* about these injuries. Arguing you have no clue is just being
> that, argumentive.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Anyway, this was based on Hickey's article titled that Laraque was in
> >> the doghouse, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb figuring he's
> >> inferred something from Carbo's tone or some off-the-record rumblings
> >> as well as the actual quotes.
>
> > I don't think you're way out on a limb; I just think it's not the only
> > conclusion that can be drawn.
>
> >>Hickey's not a rumour machine, so I give what he says
> >> credence.
>
> > Hickey's also not infallible. And reporters, rumor-mongers or not,
> > like to write interesting stories. "Habs are pissed at Laracque" is a
> > more interesting story than "Habs being patient with Laracque," so
> > it's human nature for Hickey to be more inclined to the former than
> > the latter.
>
> Actually, Hickey has a greater tendency to write stories that undercut
> stories from other reporters that try and stir controversy. If he has a
> fault, it could be argued that he's somewhat bland and restrained to the
> point of not giving us the full scoop. That's my impression anyway.
>
> > That doesn't mean he's wrong. And it would probably be better to put
> > one's money on his interpretation than mine, because all I have to go
> > on is the written word. I just wouldn't put TOO much money on it.
>
> On a good team it won't blow up too large. Fact is, Laraque can be on the
> sidelines and as long as the Habs do well, they can bench him, injury-
> reserve him, or whatever, and there won't be much notice. I just thought
> the story was interesting and a little disturbing since he's a part of
> the team for a long time...in theory.
>
> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The problem will be that if he is out long enough his return will be
disruptive, if they have to bench a healthy regular to get him back
into the lineup. Too bad they couldn`t send him to Hamilton for
"Conditioning" rather then have him use regular icetime in the middle
of the season to get back into game shape. Once the tradeline passes
and they can carry more players, if he is still more out of the lineup
then in would Carbo look to players such as Stewart / Max Pac for late
season grit over a player who has hardly played >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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Since: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 44
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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j.bauch.RemoveThis@comcast.net wrote in
> Well, I'd agree that he needs to take some time off, get whatever
> medical opinions and tests are appropriate, and then go from there.
> Sure, it might be that he hasn't taken proper care of himself or is
> lazy, but I'm reluctant to draw that conclusion without better
> evidence. It could just as easily be poor medical advice, or the guy
> just has a bad groin, the way some guys have a bad knee or back or
> whatever.
I think I'm on solid ground when I say the consensus with most groin
injuries is that the key to recovery is something like this:
1. Being in good shape
2. Giving it enough time to heal properly
3. Mentally being able to tell the difference between typical minor aches
and pains and a more serious issue
It's basically a muscle pull, so for a 30 year old, it will heal. There
aren't bone fragments or joints rubbing together and it's not torn, so it
isn't a major injury with unforseen setback unless you fail to live up to
one of the above 3 issues. A lot of people make the mistake of #2 it
seems, and sometimes that's relates directly to #1.
Anyway, this was based on Hickey's article titled that Laraque was in the
doghouse, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb figuring he's inferred
something from Carbo's tone or some off-the-record rumblings as well as
the actual quotes. Hickey's not a rumour machine, so I give what he says
credence. Right now, they Habs aren't pleased, and are putting some of
the blame on Laraque, not just accepting this is an injury that is
healing at the rate it was destined to heal at.
Marty >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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Posts: 124
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 30, 5:33 pm, marty wrote:
> j.ba....DeleteThis@comcast.net wrote innews:c0858929-7666-471c-8b43-53cf4c27ed45@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Dec 30, 4:02 pm, marty wrote:
> >> I think I'm on solid ground when I say the consensus with most groin
> >> injuries is that the key to recovery is something like this:
>
> > I haven't the slightest clue about groin injuries. I'm not a doctor,
> > nurse, physical therapist, or otherwise qualified to opine on the
> > subject.
>
> Oh come on. You're not a paid hockey analyst either, but you offer your
> opinion on hockey, don't you?
It's not an issue of being paid to do it. It's an issue of having the
knowledge. I've watched enough hockey and learned enough about the
game to have an opinion on many aspects of it. But not all -- I don't
follow junior hockey, which is why you won't hear me speculating about
who the Habs should draft next year.
>I offer my opinion on this based on the
> many different articles and references to groin injuries and how players
> deal with them. If you're a hockey fan and you can read, you know
> *something* about these injuries.
I really don't. I'm not being difficult here. If there have been
articles discussing the proper rehab from groin injuries, I haven't
read them. It's just not a particular area of interest to me. If you
do, good for you.
>Arguing you have no clue is just being
> that, argumentive.
No, it's being honest. (It's weird to find myself in the position of
having to prove my ignorance to you.)
> On a good team it won't blow up too large. Fact is, Laraque can be on the
> sidelines and as long as the Habs do well, they can bench him, injury-
> reserve him, or whatever, and there won't be much notice. I just thought
> the story was interesting and a little disturbing since he's a part of
> the team for a long time...in theory.
Oh, it's certainly interesting and worth discussing. I don't find it
all that disturbing, though. Laraque is fairly expendable. I hate to
re-ignite the "enforcer" debate, but I haven't noticed a big
difference between nights he's in the lineup and nights he isn't.
Perhaps for particular opponents he's useful, and he's not a liability
when he's healthy, but I would say it's a non-issue for me the same
way that Begin's injury history hasn't been an issue -- he is,
ultimately, just a fourth liner.
Jim >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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Posts: 200
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Dec 30, 9:26 pm, j.ba....DeleteThis@comcast.net wrote:
> On Dec 30, 5:33 pm, marty wrote:
>
> > j.ba....DeleteThis@comcast.net wrote innews:c0858929-7666-471c-8b43-53cf4c27ed45@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > On Dec 30, 4:02 pm, marty wrote:
> > >> I think I'm on solid ground when I say the consensus with most groin
> > >> injuries is that the key to recovery is something like this:
>
> > > I haven't the slightest clue about groin injuries. I'm not a doctor,
> > > nurse, physical therapist, or otherwise qualified to opine on the
> > > subject.
>
> > Oh come on. You're not a paid hockey analyst either, but you offer your
> > opinion on hockey, don't you?
>
> It's not an issue of being paid to do it. It's an issue of having the
> knowledge. I've watched enough hockey and learned enough about the
> game to have an opinion on many aspects of it. But not all -- I don't
> follow junior hockey, which is why you won't hear me speculating about
> who the Habs should draft next year.
>
> >I offer my opinion on this based on the
> > many different articles and references to groin injuries and how players
> > deal with them. If you're a hockey fan and you can read, you know
> > *something* about these injuries.
>
> I really don't. I'm not being difficult here. If there have been
> articles discussing the proper rehab from groin injuries, I haven't
> read them. It's just not a particular area of interest to me. If you
> do, good for you.
>
> >Arguing you have no clue is just being
> > that, argumentive.
>
> No, it's being honest. (It's weird to find myself in the position of
> having to prove my ignorance to you.)
>
> > On a good team it won't blow up too large. Fact is, Laraque can be on the
> > sidelines and as long as the Habs do well, they can bench him, injury-
> > reserve him, or whatever, and there won't be much notice. I just thought
> > the story was interesting and a little disturbing since he's a part of
> > the team for a long time...in theory.
>
> Oh, it's certainly interesting and worth discussing. I don't find it
> all that disturbing, though. Laraque is fairly expendable. I hate to
> re-ignite the "enforcer" debate, but I haven't noticed a big
> difference between nights he's in the lineup and nights he isn't.
> Perhaps for particular opponents he's useful, and he's not a liability
> when he's healthy, but I would say it's a non-issue for me the same
> way that Begin's injury history hasn't been an issue -- he is,
> ultimately, just a fourth liner.
>
> Jim
Wasn`t he supposed to fight so players such as Komisarek, Bouillon etc
would not have to? But his code tends to get in the way. Players who
do not want to fight Laraque, are still willing to fight other Habs,
his presence in the lineup doesn`t deter this. >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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j.bauch.DeleteThis@comcast.net wrote in
> On Dec 30, 4:02 pm, marty wrote:
>> I think I'm on solid ground when I say the consensus with most groin
>> injuries is that the key to recovery is something like this:
>
> I haven't the slightest clue about groin injuries. I'm not a doctor,
> nurse, physical therapist, or otherwise qualified to opine on the
> subject.
>
Oh come on. You're not a paid hockey analyst either, but you offer your
opinion on hockey, don't you? I offer my opinion on this based on the
many different articles and references to groin injuries and how players
deal with them. If you're a hockey fan and you can read, you know
*something* about these injuries. Arguing you have no clue is just being
that, argumentive.
>> Anyway, this was based on Hickey's article titled that Laraque was in
>> the doghouse, so I don't think I'm going out on a limb figuring he's
>> inferred something from Carbo's tone or some off-the-record rumblings
>> as well as the actual quotes.
>
> I don't think you're way out on a limb; I just think it's not the only
> conclusion that can be drawn.
>
>>Hickey's not a rumour machine, so I give what he says
>> credence.
>
> Hickey's also not infallible. And reporters, rumor-mongers or not,
> like to write interesting stories. "Habs are pissed at Laracque" is a
> more interesting story than "Habs being patient with Laracque," so
> it's human nature for Hickey to be more inclined to the former than
> the latter.
>
Actually, Hickey has a greater tendency to write stories that undercut
stories from other reporters that try and stir controversy. If he has a
fault, it could be argued that he's somewhat bland and restrained to the
point of not giving us the full scoop. That's my impression anyway.
> That doesn't mean he's wrong. And it would probably be better to put
> one's money on his interpretation than mine, because all I have to go
> on is the written word. I just wouldn't put TOO much money on it.
>
On a good team it won't blow up too large. Fact is, Laraque can be on the
sidelines and as long as the Habs do well, they can bench him, injury-
reserve him, or whatever, and there won't be much notice. I just thought
the story was interesting and a little disturbing since he's a part of
the team for a long time...in theory.
Marty >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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Posts: 269
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Laraque in doghouse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In marty writes:
>So I read that Laraque is in the doghouse, and if you read between the
>lines it seems Carbonneau is starting to question his groin injury. I'm
>wondering if he's questioning whether Laraque is stupidly bringing
>himself back too early all the time and playing injured, never letting
>the groin fully heal, or is he questioning whether Laraque's injury is as
>severe as he let's on. The 2nd scenario is by far the more troublesome.
>Some quotes:
>--------------
>Carbonneau also announced that winger Georges Laraque will be placed on
>the injured reserve list and will return to Montreal. "He hasn't been
>able to play two games in a row for us and we have to get to the bottom
>of this," Carbonneau said of Laraque's recurring groin problem.
>--------------
>Laraque's wonky groin has landed him on the injured reserve list and head
>coach Guy Carbonneau's frustration with the fragile tough guy was evident
>when he said: "We've talked to him and we want him to give us eight, nine
>minutes a game, but he can't play two games in a row."
>--------------
>Laraque played for the Penguins last season and his absence was no
>surprise to at least one of his former teammates.
>When Sidney Crosby was told Laraque was out of the lineup, he asked: "The
>groin again?"
>--------------
>I look at last years stats and he missed only about 8 games because of
>the groin injury, all early in the year. So I don't know what to make of
>it all. My first instinct is he's not ready to start the season and is
>suceptible to groin injuries because of it. That compounded this season
>by not being smart about getting it healed. He seems willing to play one
>game, then not practice or play the next. I guess Carbonneau is
>frustrated that he can't count of Laraque to properly manage his own
>injury, take the rest needed so that he can get in the line-up regularly
>as expected. Overall, I think the signing made sense, but what Laraque
>has given so far is very little for whatever reason. Injury mismanagement
>or a hint of laziness, Laraque has to smarten up.
>Marty
I think he is being quite smart, he got a 3 year 1.5 mil. contract and
if he can collect it without being a human sandback seems to be very
smart indeed. His absence does not jeopardice the teams, actually it is
good for the future, perhaps if he would be available for all the games,
they would not call D'Agostini up.
- Lauri Tarkkonen >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:25 pm
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why can't they? i believe a 2 week conditioning stint is fine as long as
the player agrees
Chuck wrote:
>
> The problem will be that if he is out long enough his return will be
> disruptive, if they have to bench a healthy regular to get him back
> into the lineup. Too bad they couldn`t send him to Hamilton for
> "Conditioning" rather then have him use regular icetime in the middle
> of the season to get back into game shape. Once the tradeline passes
> and they can carry more players, if he is still more out of the lineup
> then in would Carbo look to players such as Stewart / Max Pac for late
> season grit over a player who has hardly played >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:25 pm
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:58 pm
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:26 pm
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aha. thanks
foamy wrote:
> In article ,
> DaveHX wrote:
>> why can't they? i believe a 2 week conditioning stint is fine as long as
>> the player agrees
>
> As long as he's been inactive for a month.
>
> Jim >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:26 pm
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or maybe your lack of it? lol
j.bauch.TakeThisOut@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>> Arguing you have no clue is just being
>> that, argumentive.
>
> No, it's being honest. (It's weird to find myself in the position of
> having to prove my ignorance to you.)
> >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:26 pm
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actually...nevermind...i just re-read it all, and see your point
DaveHX wrote:
> or maybe your lack of it? lol
>
> j.bauch DeleteThis @comcast.net wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> Arguing you have no clue is just being
>>> that, argumentive.
>>
>> No, it's being honest. (It's weird to find myself in the position of
>> having to prove my ignorance to you.)
>> >> Stay informed about: Laraque in doghouse |
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| Related Topics: | Laraque - If the habs sign him up, would it make it easier to sign up some star players?
Georges Laraque is heading home - The native of Montreal, Quebec has signed a three-year contract with the Canadiens, reportedly worth $4.5 million. The deal includes a partial no-trade clause. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242393&lid=headline&lpos=secStory_nhl
An interesting thought... - We're all expecting Price to rip it up in camp and turn Huet into excess baggage. But what if he doesn't? What if he and Halak are good, but not outstanding...and *Huet* is the best goalie? It gets a lot tougher for Gainey to pull the trigger on a..
What's happened to Souray? - Obviously he didn't want to return to Montreal, but if he ends up signing for 5 mill or less and doesn't go to the west coast isn't that just a little bit embarrasing for him? I think he overestimated his value some.
Tommy Non-stopoulos? - >From the Gazette: Canadiens fans will be interested in an email I received the other day from Tom Hedican, who gives his seal of approval to the Canadiens' acquisition of veteran forward Tom Kostopoulos. You might recall that Hedican played a key... |
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