Poor Nonis had no talent for...

On Dec 28, 5:18 pm, kim wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:13:29 -0800 (PST), reno
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >evaluating talent.
>
> >With a few exceptions, Nonis traded for or signed players who ended
> >their NHL careers with Vancouver.
>
> >Brad Isbister, Jeff Cowan, Jan Bullis, Tommi Santala, Marc Chouinard,
> >Byron Ritchie, Matt Pettinger, Kris Beech, Aaron Miller…
>
> >A few other careers sputtered soon after. (Smolinski played one more
> >season with Mtl,, Patrick FitzRory played 19 more games with Philly
> >and Carter scored 11 goals the next year between Carolina and
> >Columbus.)
>
> >Otherwise, Nonis had a pattern of signing guys who really were on
> >their last NHL tires. Everyone else no longer in Vancouver is in the
> >AHL, Europe or retired. If I was Pyatt I would be terrified.
>
> >Only Willie Mitchell seems to have been a solid acquisition. (I
> >categorize Luongo for Bert as some sort of freakish fluke, not
> >dissimilar to Cowan scoring 6 goals in 4 games)
>
> Imho Nonis is an accountant.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but
> for a GM it can be problematic.  When he did the contracts for Burke,
> he was very good at it.  GMs need a little bit of bluster and a little
> bit of an ability to take risks.  Nonis being an accountant can't do
> that so he takes the low risk and what turns out to be the low risk
> reward options.  
>
> A good case in point is Bourdon.  This is NOT a slam on Bourdon
> because he was going to be a star and was a good kid and would have
> had a good (possibly great) career, but at the time we needed some
> offense and between the two, all things being equal, Kopitar would
> have been a better pick for THIS team.  
>
> Luongo was a gift.  
>
> Mitchell was wanting to sign here.  In some ways another gift.  
>
> Kim

I don't think that GMs need bluster. Ken Holland is not blusterier
than Doug MacLean.

What I think GMs really need are good department chiefs. Holland,
obviously, has built up a terrific organization that is as well
regarded for drafting and trading as the David Conte-led Devils scout
staff. The Canucks clearly did not have the pro scouting and
therefore went on past performance or projected performance under
Nonis. Someone told him that Santala was a good pickup...and that
person should be toast. (I do think that Mika Noronen was an
interesting acquisition by Nonis. Noronen fled when Luongo came to
town in 2006. Noronen was one of those goalies of the future forever
hanging around the upper end of the Hockey News prospects annuals,
with Eric Fehr.

ITA about the Canucks needing offense. I think they almost shy away
from the highly skilled pick.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

On Dec 28, 6:18 pm, Kenji wrote:
> On Dec 28, 5:18 pm, kim wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:13:29 -0800 (PST), reno
> > wrote:
>
> > >evaluating talent.
>
> > >With a few exceptions, Nonis traded for or signed players who ended
> > >their NHL careers with Vancouver.
>
> > >Brad Isbister, Jeff Cowan, Jan Bullis, Tommi Santala, Marc Chouinard,
> > >Byron Ritchie, Matt Pettinger, Kris Beech, Aaron Miller…
>
> > >A few other careers sputtered soon after. (Smolinski played one more
> > >season with Mtl,, Patrick FitzRory played 19 more games with Philly
> > >and Carter scored 11 goals the next year between Carolina and
> > >Columbus.)
>
> > >Otherwise, Nonis had a pattern of signing guys who really were on
> > >their last NHL tires. Everyone else no longer in Vancouver is in the
> > >AHL, Europe or retired. If I was Pyatt I would be terrified.
>
> > >Only Willie Mitchell seems to have been a solid acquisition. (I
> > >categorize Luongo for Bert as some sort of freakish fluke, not
> > >dissimilar to Cowan scoring 6 goals in 4 games)
>
> > Imho Nonis is an accountant.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but
> > for a GM it can be problematic.  When he did the contracts for Burke,
> > he was very good at it.  GMs need a little bit of bluster and a little
> > bit of an ability to take risks.  Nonis being an accountant can't do
> > that so he takes the low risk and what turns out to be the low risk
> > reward options.  
>
> > A good case in point is Bourdon.  This is NOT a slam on Bourdon
> > because he was going to be a star and was a good kid and would have
> > had a good (possibly great) career, but at the time we needed some
> > offense and between the two, all things being equal, Kopitar would
> > have been a better pick for THIS team.  
>
> > Luongo was a gift.  
>
> > Mitchell was wanting to sign here.  In some ways another gift.  
>
> > Kim
>
> I don't think that GMs need bluster.  Ken Holland is not blusterier
> than Doug MacLean.
>
> What I think GMs really need are good department chiefs.  Holland,
> obviously, has built up a terrific organization that is as well
> regarded for drafting and trading as the David Conte-led Devils scout
> staff.  The Canucks clearly did not have the pro scouting and
> therefore went on past performance or projected performance under
> Nonis.  Someone told him that Santala was a good pickup...and that
> person should be toast.  (I do think that Mika Noronen was an
> interesting acquisition by Nonis.  Noronen fled when Luongo came to
> town in 2006.  Noronen was one of those goalies of the future forever
> hanging around the upper end of the Hockey News prospects annuals,
> with Eric Fehr.
>
> ITA about the Canucks needing offense.  I think they almost shy away
> from the highly skilled pick.

Gillis' other low budget pickup that has worked out well has been
O'Brien. A good exchange for Kraker IMO
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

In article
,
reno wrote:


>
> Gillis' other low budget pickup that has worked out well has been
> O'Brien. A good exchange for Kraker IMO

Absolutely. I figured him for a generic 6th-7th guy who'd give them a
bit more grit on the blueline, but he's been one of their more
reliable d-men, and seems to keep his head under pressure. I'm actually
less worried when he's got the puck in the canucks' zone than when
Ohlund has it, the way Ohlund's been playing lately.

So far Gillis has been doing fairly well, considering the no-trades
he was saddled with, IMO.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

On Dec 29, 11:00 am, jgray wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>  reno wrote:
>
> > Gillis' other low budget pickup that has worked out well has been
> > O'Brien. A good exchange for Kraker IMO
>
> Absolutely.  I figured him for a generic 6th-7th guy who'd give them a
> bit more grit on the blueline, but he's been one of their more
> reliable d-men, and seems to keep his head under pressure.  

He just seemed slow to me. But then he picked it up, maybe getting
more fit (he is, amusingly, one of the several fattish single Canucks
who are provided wholesome meals by the team's nutritionist) and
confident (has an unexpected "change of pace" step and good enough
hands to stickhandle the forechecker rather than pass it away).

I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer -- and I
was hoping he could be the puck-lugging fast blueliner that I think we
have lacked since Jovo -- but as a third-pair guy he is all one could
wish for.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

"Kenji" wrote in message

On Dec 29, 11:00 am, jgray wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
> reno wrote:
>
> > Gillis' other low budget pickup that has worked out well has been
> > O'Brien. A good exchange for Kraker IMO
>
> Absolutely. I figured him for a generic 6th-7th guy who'd give them a
> bit more grit on the blueline, but he's been one of their more
> reliable d-men, and seems to keep his head under pressure.

He just seemed slow to me. But then he picked it up, maybe getting
more fit (he is, amusingly, one of the several fattish single Canucks
who are provided wholesome meals by the team's nutritionist) and
confident (has an unexpected "change of pace" step and good enough
hands to stickhandle the forechecker rather than pass it away).
_____________________

Yeah, he's quick with the puck, which makes up for his lack of footspeed.
He's got a little Jovo-esque spin move that he uses effectively to get away
from forecheckers.

Josh
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

> I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer --

Unfortunately, I think maybe we did. After 31 games this year, he's
got a whopping 6 assists. Not very good for an 'offensive' D.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

"Joshua" wrote in

> Yeah, he's quick with the puck, which makes up for his lack of
> footspeed. He's got a little Jovo-esque spin move that he uses
> effectively to get away from forecheckers.
>
> Josh

He does it often though, and I can only think that at some point everyone
in the league will catch up with it... I just hope he is not wearing a
canucks jersey when it happens :)

Victor Wainer
http://www.volaverunt.net
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

"Kenji" wrote in message



I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer -- and I
was hoping he could be the puck-lugging fast blueliner that I think we
have lacked since Jovo

---
Joe Corvo. He's inconsistent to be sure but he fits the bill. Plus he's
got a felony assault charge on his record (for beating up a woman in a bar)
and tons of tattoos!
http://media.canada.com/idl/otct/20060915/120648-45626.jpg
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

On Dec 30, 4:29 am, "db" wrote:
> "Kenji" wrote in message
>
>
>
> I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer -- and I
> was hoping he could be the puck-lugging fast blueliner that I think we
> have lacked since Jovo
>
> ---
> Joe Corvo.  He's inconsistent to be sure but he fits the bill.  Plus he's
> got a felony assault charge on his record (for beating up a woman in a bar)
> and tons of tattoos!http://media.canada.com/idl/otct/20060915/120648-45626.jpg

I looked him up on the ol' Wiki.

It seems that while dining he grabbed a patron's buttocks, who found
this considerably less witty and amiable than he did. So he beat her
up.

I am partial to the Foamy way of thinking in which drafting character
is not as important as acquiring skill. But, still -- ew.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

In article ,
"db" wrote:

> "Kenji" wrote in message
>
>
>
> I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer -- and I
> was hoping he could be the puck-lugging fast blueliner that I think we
> have lacked since Jovo
>
> ---
> Joe Corvo. He's inconsistent to be sure but he fits the bill. Plus he's
> got a felony assault charge on his record (for beating up a woman in a bar)
> and tons of tattoos!
> http://media.canada.com/idl/otct/20060915/120648-45626.jpg

What if, ignoring the salary cap unworkability for a moment, somehow old
special ed could be freed from the pathos that is the Coyotes and brought
back to Vancouver by the trade deadline? Would it be worth trying to
free up a little more cap space to make it happen? Is he even worth
the effort at this stage in his career?
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

"jgray" wrote in message

>
> What if, ignoring the salary cap unworkability for a moment, somehow old
> special ed could be freed from the pathos that is the Coyotes and brought
> back to Vancouver by the trade deadline? Would it be worth trying to
> free up a little more cap space to make it happen? Is he even worth
> the effort at this stage in his career?


Only if Deadmarsh was still playing. ;)
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

"jgray" wrote in message
> In article "db" wrote:
>> "Kenji" wrote in message
>>
>> I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer -- and I
>> was hoping he could be the puck-lugging fast blueliner that I think we
>> have lacked since Jovo
>>
>> ---
>> Joe Corvo. He's inconsistent to be sure but he fits the bill. Plus he's
>> got a felony assault charge on his record (for beating up a woman in a
>> bar)
>> and tons of tattoos!
>> http://media.canada.com/idl/otct/20060915/120648-45626.jpg
>
> What if, ignoring the salary cap unworkability for a moment, somehow old
> special ed could be freed from the pathos that is the Coyotes and brought
> back to Vancouver by the trade deadline? Would it be worth trying to
> free up a little more cap space to make it happen? Is he even worth
> the effort at this stage in his career?

Mathieu Schneider is a possibility.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for... 

"Floats in Water" wrote in message

>
> "jgray" wrote in message
>> In article "db" wrote:
>>> "Kenji" wrote in message
>>>
>>> I am not sure that we saw the best that Kracker had to offer -- and I
>>> was hoping he could be the puck-lugging fast blueliner that I think we
>>> have lacked since Jovo
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Joe Corvo. He's inconsistent to be sure but he fits the bill. Plus
>>> he's
>>> got a felony assault charge on his record (for beating up a woman in a
>>> bar)
>>> and tons of tattoos!
>>> http://media.canada.com/idl/otct/20060915/120648-45626.jpg
>>
>> What if, ignoring the salary cap unworkability for a moment, somehow old
>> special ed could be freed from the pathos that is the Coyotes and brought
>> back to Vancouver by the trade deadline? Would it be worth trying to
>> free up a little more cap space to make it happen? Is he even worth
>> the effort at this stage in his career?
>
> Mathieu Schneider is a possibility.
>

Schneider?? Pffft. I hear he only beats up men.
 >> Stay informed about: Poor Nonis had no talent for...