Sooooo...

in article 478c05c0$0$31238$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com, kovy at
so.TakeThisOut@happy.com wrote on 1/14/08 8:03 PM:

> This team got really bad, really fast. I guess it's punishment for those of
> us that were complaining about their play and lack of scoring while they
> were actually winning.
>
> As it stands, this is a very bad team in a bad cap situation. Not very much
> flexibility there.
>
> No idea where this is going. The players just aren't playing as hard as they
> used to. Not much intensity. A lot of disinterested body language. Has
> Renney completely lost this group? I don't know. Very poor play from those
> they rely on the most. Bleh...
>
>
It's 1997-2004 all over again.
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

"Alex" <akaufmann.DeleteThis@nyc.NOSPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:C3B17742.121D05%akaufmann@nyc.NOSPAM.rr.com...
> in article 478c05c0$0$31238$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com, kovy at
> so.DeleteThis@happy.com wrote on 1/14/08 8:03 PM:
>
>> This team got really bad, really fast. I guess it's punishment for those
>> of
>> us that were complaining about their play and lack of scoring while they
>> were actually winning.
>>
>> As it stands, this is a very bad team in a bad cap situation. Not very
>> much
>> flexibility there.
>>
>> No idea where this is going. The players just aren't playing as hard as
>> they
>> used to. Not much intensity. A lot of disinterested body language. Has
>> Renney completely lost this group? I don't know. Very poor play from
>> those
>> they rely on the most. Bleh...
>>
>>
> It's 1997-2004 all over again.

As far as how they look, they are very reminiscent of the 2003-2004 team.
Talented enough to be a playoff team but not hardworking except in
stretches, lost, undisciplined, and lacking in confidence.

The only bright spot right now is that they are only 6-9 points out of
having a very nice chance at a sweat lottery pick. I have no idea if this is
supposed to be a good draft coming up though. Wow, half way through the
season and I'm talking about the draft. Just like the good old days.
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

"Bender" <Jeffrey.S.Morrison.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dfaa68a2-8247-4e7c-8c87-49573e05469d@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 14, 6:03 pm, "kovy" <s....TakeThisOut@happy.com> wrote:
>> No idea where this is going. The players just aren't playing as hard as
>> they
>> used to. Not much intensity. A lot of disinterested body language. Has
>> Renney completely lost this group? I don't know. Very poor play from
>> those
>> they rely on the most. Bleh...
>
> If it's obvious to fans that the team has given up, then it has to be
> obvious to management. The problem with that is that making a
> coaching change at this point in the season is an automatic "we give
> up", and the... stubborn man at the helm has no interest in admitting
> failure.
>
> Also if Renney goes, Pearn is probably taking over, and then it's a
> second half of exactly the same.

I don't know what the point of firing Renney would be at this point. They
aren't bringing in an instant difference maker. This group doesn't strike me
as talented enough to just start playing well because of a coaching change
shake up. This is the type of team that needs a system and to execute it
well with hard work and intensity. That's the only way a group like this can
be successful.

You know, early in the season when they were actually winning, the players
weren't exactly happy. They were frustrated a lot. And the talk was often
about how they feel they are finally coming around and how things are
starting to click. But they never actually did come around and never
actually clicked... and then they stopped trying hard and started to lose.
Really looks like a team that has quit on something they weren't buying
into.

I guess we can all hold our breath for the all-star break. After which
Avery's return will spark another inexplicable miracle run. woohoo.
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

Being the conspiracy theorist I am I pose the following.

The locker room is divided. Euros vs NAs. Jagr has not played at all
inspired (seems to miss/pout Nylander) AND Malik's hiss fit in Edmonton
is well unprofessional. Methinks trading Jagr would be a good start. He
is not needed. The Rangers have some young talent and players in their
prime that they can build around.

-Doug

kovy wrote:
> This team got really bad, really fast. I guess it's punishment for those of
> us that were complaining about their play and lack of scoring while they
> were actually winning.
>
> As it stands, this is a very bad team in a bad cap situation. Not very much
> flexibility there.
>
> No idea where this is going. The players just aren't playing as hard as they
> used to. Not much intensity. A lot of disinterested body language. Has
> Renney completely lost this group? I don't know. Very poor play from those
> they rely on the most. Bleh...
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

"kovy" <so.RemoveThis@happy.com> wrote in message
news:478c1287$0$28799$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> "Bender" <Jeffrey.S.Morrison.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dfaa68a2-8247-4e7c-8c87-49573e05469d@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 14, 6:03 pm, "kovy" <s....RemoveThis@happy.com> wrote:
>>> No idea where this is going. The players just aren't playing as hard as
>>> they
>>> used to. Not much intensity. A lot of disinterested body language. Has
>>> Renney completely lost this group? I don't know. Very poor play from
>>> those
>>> they rely on the most. Bleh...
>>
>> If it's obvious to fans that the team has given up, then it has to be
>> obvious to management. The problem with that is that making a
>> coaching change at this point in the season is an automatic "we give
>> up", and the... stubborn man at the helm has no interest in admitting
>> failure.
>>
>> Also if Renney goes, Pearn is probably taking over, and then it's a
>> second half of exactly the same.
>
> I don't know what the point of firing Renney would be at this point. They
> aren't bringing in an instant difference maker. This group doesn't strike
> me as talented enough to just start playing well because of a coaching
> change shake up. This is the type of team that needs a system and to
> execute it well with hard work and intensity. That's the only way a group
> like this can be successful.
>
> You know, early in the season when they were actually winning, the players
> weren't exactly happy. They were frustrated a lot. And the talk was often
> about how they feel they are finally coming around and how things are
> starting to click. But they never actually did come around and never
> actually clicked... and then they stopped trying hard and started to lose.
> Really looks like a team that has quit on something they weren't buying
> into.
>
> I guess we can all hold our breath for the all-star break. After which
> Avery's return will spark another inexplicable miracle run. woohoo.
>
I think the Rangers overplayed Lundquist. When he was playing sensational,
he stole games and points from the opposition. Now he seems he ordinary. A
rest at some key points might have saved some of his....magic.
The team couldn't play any worse with a change of attitude. Go out and give
your best effort and have fun.
To hell with the media, the management, and us fans.
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

"Doug Thompson" <nospamthanks RemoveThis @na.com> wrote in message
news:9SVij.66303$EA5.61525@pd7urf2no...
> Being the conspiracy theorist I am I pose the following.
>
> The locker room is divided. Euros vs NAs. Jagr has not played at all
> inspired (seems to miss/pout Nylander) AND Malik's hiss fit in Edmonton is
> well unprofessional. Methinks trading Jagr would be a good start. He is
> not needed. The Rangers have some young talent and players in their prime
> that they can build around.

The thing is, in trading Jagr they admit that this season is over. And I
don't think management is ever going to admit that until it's too late.
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

Not necessarily. It would depend on what came in return. I'd favour
youds. And next summer take a run at signing Lecalvier.

kovy wrote:
> "Doug Thompson" <nospamthanks.RemoveThis@na.com> wrote in message
> news:9SVij.66303$EA5.61525@pd7urf2no...
>> Being the conspiracy theorist I am I pose the following.
>>
>> The locker room is divided. Euros vs NAs. Jagr has not played at all
>> inspired (seems to miss/pout Nylander) AND Malik's hiss fit in Edmonton is
>> well unprofessional. Methinks trading Jagr would be a good start. He is
>> not needed. The Rangers have some young talent and players in their prime
>> that they can build around.
>
> The thing is, in trading Jagr they admit that this season is over. And I
> don't think management is ever going to admit that until it's too late.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

On 2008-01-17, Doug Thompson <nospamthanks.TakeThisOut@na.com> wrote:
> The question is: Are the Rangers a Stanley Cup contending team with
> Jagr? It is a yes or no question.

No. Even IommiHadOneLucidMoment agreed that the Rangers are at least
one big defensive defenceman away from a Cup run. From the looks of
things, they need a hell of a lot more than that, but that's certainly
the bare minimum.

> I don't think they are.

That's not "yes" or "no". ;-)

> So, if they
> aren't going to content for Stanley why keep Jagr when he could be
> traded to a contending team? It would stabilize the dressing room AND
> provide the Rangers with youds and cap space.

I'm still skeptical that another team would pick him up, or that they'd
be willing to give back something of even partially comparable value.
Even now, I think that Jagr is still more valuable than a bag of pucks.
Malik, OTOH.... They might get that defensive defenceman for Jagr, but
then are they strong enough to be a serious Cup contender? Doubtful,
but especially if this defenceman is young, it would be worth
considering.

I don't know how true this is, but I thought one of the Devils fans
mentioned that, if Jagr is traded, the Caps are off the hook for their
share of his salary. So the Rangers take the cap hit, plus any of his
salary they agree to pay in exchange for bribing some team to take him.

--keith

--
kkeller-usenet.TakeThisOut@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
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"Doug Thompson" <nospamthanks RemoveThis @na.com> wrote in message
news:voAjj.81734$EA5.12617@pd7urf2no...
> The question is: Are the Rangers a Stanley Cup contending team with Jagr?
> It is a yes or no question. I don't think they are. So, if they aren't
> going to content for Stanley why keep Jagr when he could be traded to a
> contending team? It would stabilize the dressing room AND provide the
> Rangers with youds and cap space.

Why are you applying logic to what the Rangers are going to do? They're not
trading Jagr because they aren't calling it quits on the season regardless
of the fact that they have 0% of winning the cup.


> Regarding the young talent: Dawes has the talent to be a 35 year a goal
> scorer. As it stands goals scored games played he is on pace for 20-25
> goals. Dubinsky is starting to show nice hands and one of my favorite
> traits a little mean streak. Prucha, given pp time and ice time should
> turn into a 30 goals a year player.

That's a lot of best case scenarios. I like all those players and I hope
they come through. But none of them is going to be a big time scorer. I sure
hope I'm wrong though.


> NYC has something to offer no other city has.

You should apply for a job at the MSG marketing department.
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On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:59:23 GMT, Doug Thompson <nospamthanks.DeleteThis@na.com>
wrote:

>The question is: Are the Rangers a Stanley Cup contending team with
>Jagr? It is a yes or no question. I don't think they are. So, if they
>aren't going to content for Stanley why keep Jagr when he could be
>traded to a contending team? It would stabilize the dressing room AND
>provide the Rangers with youds and cap space.

Doug

This is NY. There's a better chance the Rangers will try to land
Forsberg than trade Jagr. :-)

Timmy
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On Jan 17, 8:27 pm, Doug Thompson <nospamtha....TakeThisOut@na.com> wrote:
> Timmy, I thought given the 2004 purge that common sense finally set in?
> Am I wrong?


Yes.

That was a perfect storm of events related to the lockout and
impending salary cap.

We'll not see the likes of that again although the salary cap prevents
us from being as ridiculous at the deadline as we once were.
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

Timmy, I thought given the 2004 purge that common sense finally set in?
Am I wrong?



Timmy B wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:59:23 GMT, Doug Thompson <nospamthanks.RemoveThis@na.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The question is: Are the Rangers a Stanley Cup contending team with
>> Jagr? It is a yes or no question. I don't think they are. So, if they
>> aren't going to content for Stanley why keep Jagr when he could be
>> traded to a contending team? It would stabilize the dressing room AND
>> provide the Rangers with youds and cap space.
>
> Doug
>
> This is NY. There's a better chance the Rangers will try to land
> Forsberg than trade Jagr. :-)
>
> Timmy
 >> Stay informed about: Sooooo... 

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 01:27:26 GMT, Doug Thompson <nospamthanks.TakeThisOut@na.com>
wrote:

>Timmy B wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:59:23 GMT, Doug Thompson <nospamthanks.TakeThisOut@na.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The question is: Are the Rangers a Stanley Cup contending team with
>>> Jagr? It is a yes or no question. I don't think they are. So, if they
>>> aren't going to content for Stanley why keep Jagr when he could be
>>> traded to a contending team? It would stabilize the dressing room AND
>>> provide the Rangers with youds and cap space.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> This is NY. There's a better chance the Rangers will try to land
>> Forsberg than trade Jagr. :-)
>>
>> Timmy

>Timmy, I thought given the 2004 purge that common sense finally set in?

Hopefully it has. I was half heartily joking but you never know. The
Rangers dumped a lot of money into two players during the offseason.
And although both those players should have some good years left, I
don't think missing the playoffs is something Dolan had in mind -
considering the shape of the Knicks. IMO, if the Rangers are anywhere
near a playoff spot, the best we could hope for is that Sather sinks
or swims with this current roster instead of moving prospects. I can't
see them moving Jagr unless things are completely lost. And that will
take a lot of losing to convince Dolan things are lost.

>Am I wrong?

We'll find out.

Timmy
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