Suter contract

On Jun 16, 12:13 pm, Duane <letskee... DeleteThis @posting4now.com> wrote:
> Ryan Suter got $14M over 4 years, or $3.5m/season as an RFA.  This is
> interesting for the Ehrhoff negotiation.  Their stats are similar,
> although of course Ehrhoff is 2 years older, and last season was asked
> to have a more defensive role on the team:
>
> Ehrhoff 77 1 21 22 +9 72 21:43
> Suter 76 7 24 31 +3 71 20:34
>
> I am not sure about this, but I believe Ehrhoff will be a UFA 1 year
> earlier, as well, which makes a longer term deal with him a bit more
> valuable.  In Suter's case, he looks to have more potential than
> Ehrhoff, although its a crying shame with Ehrhoff's skills. Developing
> his offensive side will be a good project for McLellan. That is, if he
> is still around... If the Sharks hope to keep Marleau and Campbell,
> they will need to jettison salary.  Would he bring a 2nd and a 3rd (to
> replace those missing picks)?

I really hope they can keep Campbell. Marleau too, but I'd let go of
him first. If dumping Ehrhoff could help keep the other two it would
be worth it. I do think he's a step down from Suter, but still those
are interesting ballpark numbers.

If you do deal Ehrhoff, it's critical to keep Campbell. Having the
likes of Ozo, Semenov, and McLaren (and I don't even know that you can
bank on Murray and Carle with 100% certainty either), it would be
devastating to lose Ehrhoff and Campbell. Would the Sharks sign
Campbell first, or could they rely on him accepting a strong offer
down the road? Or, could they even take the risk and still be able to
devote the money gained from losing both to grabbing at a different D
on July 1?
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

On Jun 16, 2:02 pm, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 12:13 pm, Duane <letskee....DeleteThis@posting4now.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ryan Suter got $14M over 4 years, or $3.5m/season as an RFA. This is
> > interesting for the Ehrhoff negotiation. Their stats are similar,
> > although of course Ehrhoff is 2 years older, and last season was asked
> > to have a more defensive role on the team:
>
> > Ehrhoff 77 1 21 22 +9 72 21:43
> > Suter 76 7 24 31 +3 71 20:34
>
> > I am not sure about this, but I believe Ehrhoff will be a UFA 1 year
> > earlier, as well, which makes a longer term deal with him a bit more
> > valuable. In Suter's case, he looks to have more potential than
> > Ehrhoff, although its a crying shame with Ehrhoff's skills. Developing
> > his offensive side will be a good project for McLellan. That is, if he
> > is still around... If the Sharks hope to keep Marleau and Campbell,
> > they will need to jettison salary. Would he bring a 2nd and a 3rd (to
> > replace those missing picks)?
>
> I really hope they can keep Campbell. Marleau too, but I'd let go of
> him first. If dumping Ehrhoff could help keep the other two it would
> be worth it. I do think he's a step down from Suter, but still those
> are interesting ballpark numbers.
>
> If you do deal Ehrhoff, it's critical to keep Campbell. Having the
> likes of Ozo, Semenov, and McLaren (and I don't even know that you can
> bank on Murray and Carle with 100% certainty either), it would be
> devastating to lose Ehrhoff and Campbell. Would the Sharks sign
> Campbell first, or could they rely on him accepting a strong offer
> down the road? Or, could they even take the risk and still be able to
> devote the money gained from losing both to grabbing at a different D
> on July 1?

I don't understand this admiration for Campbell. He was terrible in
the playoffs. The only reason to retain him is the thought of not
getting anything in return for the 1st round pick and Bernie. We
saw clearly that Campbell was shaking throughout the Calgary series,
didn't have the production you'd expect, gave up too many turnovers
for a supposedly star-player. If the objective of the team is to go
deep in the playoffs, I think that Marleau and Ehrhoff should be kept
not Campbell.

For the playoffs, I would think bigger / hard hitting blueliner would
be better. Trade McLaren away if possible and get Orpik.
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

On Jun 17, 2:28 pm, Googz <ghoro....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 2:02 pm, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 12:13 pm, Duane <letskee....DeleteThis@posting4now.com> wrote:
>
> > > Ryan Suter got $14M over 4 years, or $3.5m/season as an RFA.  This is
> > > interesting for the Ehrhoff negotiation.  Their stats are similar,
> > > although of course Ehrhoff is 2 years older, and last season was asked
> > > to have a more defensive role on the team:
>
> > > Ehrhoff 77 1 21 22 +9 72 21:43
> > > Suter 76 7 24 31 +3 71 20:34
>
> > > I am not sure about this, but I believe Ehrhoff will be a UFA 1 year
> > > earlier, as well, which makes a longer term deal with him a bit more
> > > valuable.  In Suter's case, he looks to have more potential than
> > > Ehrhoff, although its a crying shame with Ehrhoff's skills. Developing
> > > his offensive side will be a good project for McLellan. That is, if he
> > > is still around... If the Sharks hope to keep Marleau and Campbell,
> > > they will need to jettison salary.  Would he bring a 2nd and a 3rd (to
> > > replace those missing picks)?
>
> > I really hope they can keep Campbell. Marleau too, but I'd let go of
> > him first. If dumping Ehrhoff could help keep the other two it would
> > be worth it. I do think he's a step down from Suter, but still those
> > are interesting ballpark numbers.
>
> > If you do deal Ehrhoff, it's critical to keep Campbell. Having the
> > likes of Ozo, Semenov, and McLaren (and I don't even know that you can
> > bank on Murray and Carle with 100% certainty either), it would be
> > devastating to lose Ehrhoff and Campbell. Would the Sharks sign
> > Campbell first, or could they rely on him accepting a strong offer
> > down the road? Or, could they even take the risk and still be able to
> > devote the money gained from losing both to grabbing at a different D
> > on July 1?
>
> I don't understand this admiration for Campbell.   He was terrible in
> the playoffs.  The only reason to retain him is the thought of not
> getting anything in return for the 1st round pick and Bernie.    We
> saw clearly that Campbell was shaking throughout the Calgary series,
> didn't have the production you'd expect, gave up too many turnovers
> for a supposedly star-player.    If the objective of the team is to go
> deep in the playoffs, I think that Marleau and Ehrhoff should be kept
> not Campbell.
>
> For the playoffs, I would think bigger / hard hitting blueliner would
> be better.   Trade McLaren away if possible and get Orpik.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

McLaren is finished. Trade him or just give him his release. He
shouldn't take up valuable roster space.

As for Campbell, I agree that he was a bit of a disappointment in the
playoffs, but he did get better in the Dallas series. And, he can
move the puck well. Guys who can skate and move the puck, like
Campbell, don't grow on trees.

Let's put things in perspective:

Even admitting Campbell wasn't at his best form in the playoffs, he
had seven points, only three less than our top scorer. That's how bad
we were, as a whole.

And, during the regular season, he scored nineteen points in twenty
games, almost what Ehrhoff did in a season.

I think I'd like to see him, again, under our new coach.

As for Ehrhoff, I stated my position above and continue to think that
he's not going to change his basic characteristics, which aren't
showing all that much growth, either offensively or defensively. He's
not remotely in Campbell's league.
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

On Jun 17, 11:38 am, tack <thetac....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 17, 2:28 pm, Googz <ghoro....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 2:02 pm, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 16, 12:13 pm, Duane <letskee....TakeThisOut@posting4now.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Ryan Suter got $14M over 4 years, or $3.5m/season as an RFA. This is
> > > > interesting for the Ehrhoff negotiation. Their stats are similar,
> > > > although of course Ehrhoff is 2 years older, and last season was asked
> > > > to have a more defensive role on the team:
>
> > > > Ehrhoff 77 1 21 22 +9 72 21:43
> > > > Suter 76 7 24 31 +3 71 20:34
>
> > > > I am not sure about this, but I believe Ehrhoff will be a UFA 1 year
> > > > earlier, as well, which makes a longer term deal with him a bit more
> > > > valuable. In Suter's case, he looks to have more potential than
> > > > Ehrhoff, although its a crying shame with Ehrhoff's skills. Developing
> > > > his offensive side will be a good project for McLellan. That is, if he
> > > > is still around... If the Sharks hope to keep Marleau and Campbell,
> > > > they will need to jettison salary. Would he bring a 2nd and a 3rd (to
> > > > replace those missing picks)?
>
> > > I really hope they can keep Campbell. Marleau too, but I'd let go of
> > > him first. If dumping Ehrhoff could help keep the other two it would
> > > be worth it. I do think he's a step down from Suter, but still those
> > > are interesting ballpark numbers.
>
> > > If you do deal Ehrhoff, it's critical to keep Campbell. Having the
> > > likes of Ozo, Semenov, and McLaren (and I don't even know that you can
> > > bank on Murray and Carle with 100% certainty either), it would be
> > > devastating to lose Ehrhoff and Campbell. Would the Sharks sign
> > > Campbell first, or could they rely on him accepting a strong offer
> > > down the road? Or, could they even take the risk and still be able to
> > > devote the money gained from losing both to grabbing at a different D
> > > on July 1?
>
> > I don't understand this admiration for Campbell. He was terrible in
> > the playoffs. The only reason to retain him is the thought of not
> > getting anything in return for the 1st round pick and Bernie. We
> > saw clearly that Campbell was shaking throughout the Calgary series,
> > didn't have the production you'd expect, gave up too many turnovers
> > for a supposedly star-player. If the objective of the team is to go
> > deep in the playoffs, I think that Marleau and Ehrhoff should be kept
> > not Campbell.
>
> > For the playoffs, I would think bigger / hard hitting blueliner would
> > be better. Trade McLaren away if possible and get Orpik.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> McLaren is finished. Trade him or just give him his release. He
> shouldn't take up valuable roster space.
>
> As for Campbell, I agree that he was a bit of a disappointment in the
> playoffs, but he did get better in the Dallas series. And, he can
> move the puck well. Guys who can skate and move the puck, like
> Campbell, don't grow on trees.
>
> Let's put things in perspective:
>
> Even admitting Campbell wasn't at his best form in the playoffs, he
> had seven points, only three less than our top scorer. That's how bad
> we were, as a whole.
>
> And, during the regular season, he scored nineteen points in twenty
> games, almost what Ehrhoff did in a season.
>
> I think I'd like to see him, again, under our new coach.
>
> As for Ehrhoff, I stated my position above and continue to think that
> he's not going to change his basic characteristics, which aren't
> showing all that much growth, either offensively or defensively. He's
> not remotely in Campbell's league.

I don't think McLaren is a waste. when healthy he's worth the money.
The question really is whether or not he can stay healthy.

I think Ehrhoff showed some maturity this year. Granted his points
went down, but he was more responsible defensively. Now i'm not
saying he's a top-line d-man, but he could be considered in the top 4
in any team

As for Campbell - I think the playoffs exposed his lapses in
defense. He's not a great two way player like Phaneuf, Lidstrom. If
he was, then it would justify all the hype and 6 or 7M salary.
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:38:16 -0700 (PDT), tack <thetacker.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>As for Ehrhoff, I stated my position above and continue to think that
>he's not going to change his basic characteristics, which aren't
>showing all that much growth, either offensively or defensively. He's
>not remotely in Campbell's league.

I mostly agree with your post, but Ehrhoff was told to play more
defensively, and he was effective, and in my view, more effective than
Campbell at one on one play in his own zone. Campbell looked shaky at
times (although excellent in most other aspects of his play). I would
prefer to keep Ehrhoff, and see if he blossoms. The guy is still only
25, and now that he is solid defensively, so isn't a liability out
there, perhaps the new coach can harvest something on the offensive
side? But if it comes down to numbers, and if they can keep Campbell,
which I also think they should do, Ehrhoff would be one defender I
wouldn't be too upset to lose. As for McLaren, if anyone will take
him and his $2m off of DW's hands, they would be most welcome to do
so.

With Kristy coming home, Hedican is a real possibility to sign, too.
He is a great replacement for McLaren, as #5 or #6 guy.

Another factor in signing Campbell will be the mentoring that he can
do for Carle. They are paying this guy a lot, and they need to speed
his offensive development. If both he and Vlasic are through with
their sophomore slumps, the Sharks defense will be very solid, Ehrhoff
or not.
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

On Jun 17, 12:49 pm, Duane <letskee....DeleteThis@posting4now.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:38:16 -0700 (PDT), tack <thetac....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >As for Ehrhoff, I stated my position above and continue to think that
> >he's not going to change his basic characteristics, which aren't
> >showing all that much growth, either offensively or defensively.  He's
> >not remotely in Campbell's league.
>
> I mostly agree with your post, but Ehrhoff was told to play more
> defensively, and he was effective, and in my view, more effective than
> Campbell at one on one play in his own zone.  Campbell looked shaky at
> times (although excellent in most other aspects of his play).  I would
> prefer to keep Ehrhoff, and see if he blossoms.  The guy is still only
> 25, and now that he is solid defensively, so isn't a liability out
> there, perhaps the new coach can harvest something on the offensive
> side?  But if it comes down to numbers, and if they can keep Campbell,
> which I also think they should do, Ehrhoff would be one defender I
> wouldn't be too upset to lose.  As for McLaren, if anyone will take
> him and his $2m off of DW's hands, they would be most welcome to do
> so.  
>
> With Kristy coming home, Hedican is a real possibility to sign, too.
> He is a great replacement for McLaren, as  #5 or #6 guy.
>
> Another factor in signing Campbell will be the mentoring that he can
> do for Carle.  They are paying this guy a lot, and they need to speed
> his offensive development.  If both he and Vlasic are through with
> their sophomore slumps, the Sharks defense will be very solid, Ehrhoff
> or not.

I'd like to keep the 3 of them, Campbell, Marleau, and Ehrhoff. But
alas, the Sharks seem to be budget-conscious.

Yes Campbell struggled in the playoffs. If we looked to not re-sign
every Shark who underperformed in the playoffs, well then there would
be quite a lot of exiting players. I'd like to see a deadline deal
yield something more than a loss of more trading assets for a change.

I agree that Ehrhoff showed surprising improvement in his defensive
game. And while I agree with Tack that we can probably stop hoping for
him to ever develop any serious (consistent) offensive game, he would
have a legit shot to be a top 4 guy on this team next season, even
with Campbell on board.

Reportedly there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of anyone wanting
McLaren. Which leads me to my original questions....Duane you usually
know about this stuff, so did you have any thoughts on the order of
events? And as per McLaren, is there anything at all the Sharks can do
to lessen the budget hit? If they place him on waivers, I assume no
one picks him up and they are still taking full cap hit?
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:55:26 -0700 (PDT), "Mr. T"
<ted.pederson RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>Reportedly there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of anyone wanting
>McLaren. Which leads me to my original questions....Duane you usually
>know about this stuff, so did you have any thoughts on the order of
>events? And as per McLaren, is there anything at all the Sharks can do
>to lessen the budget hit? If they place him on waivers, I assume no
>one picks him up and they are still taking full cap hit?

I'm not all that expert on buyouts and waivers, but as I understand it
if you want to get rid of a player for salary cap purposes, you can
waive him, and if no one picks him up then you can demote him. You
still have to pay him, as long as he reports to the AHL team, but he
won't count against the cap. If the concern is money paid out, as
opposed to cap hit, which is more likely the case with the Sharks,
then this doesn't help at all.

For a buyout you pay either 2/3 or 1/3 (if the player is under 26) of
the remaining contract amount over twice the original term of the
contract.

McLaren's buyout amount would be 2/3 of 2.5M (he has just next year
remaining), or 1.66M, spread over two years, so 0.833M per year.
Again, if the cap is the issue, and I don't think it is, then this
would be worth doing if he is truly finished. Or get him to retire.
Or waive him and see if anyone bites. But I'm guessing they are stuck
with him for this season, and he's a reasonable #7 guy, although way
too expensive for that...
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract 

Waive McLaren now and if no one picks him up, bring him to camp, hope
he stays healthy and waive him again. If McLaren can get on the ice I
suspect one of the multitude of NHL Gm's will claim him. I can't
imagine Dean Lombardi passing him up.




On Jun 18, 2:22 pm, Duane <letskee... RemoveThis @posting4now.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:55:26 -0700 (PDT), "Mr. T"
>
> <ted.peder... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >Reportedly there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of anyone wanting
> >McLaren. Which leads me to my original questions....Duane you usually
> >know about this stuff, so did you have any thoughts on the order of
> >events? And as per McLaren, is there anything at all the Sharks can do
> >to lessen the budget hit? If they place him on waivers, I assume no
> >one picks him up and they are still taking full cap hit?
>
> I'm not all that expert on buyouts and waivers, but as I understand it
> if you want to get rid of a player for salary cap purposes, you can
> waive him, and if no one picks him up then you can demote him. You
> still have to pay him, as long as he reports to the AHL team, but he
> won't count against the cap. If the concern is money paid out, as
> opposed to cap hit, which is more likely the case with the Sharks,
> then this doesn't help at all.
>
> For a buyout you pay either 2/3 or 1/3 (if the player is under 26) of
> the remaining contract amount over twice the original term of the
> contract.
>
> McLaren's buyout amount would be 2/3 of 2.5M (he has just next year
> remaining), or 1.66M, spread over two years, so 0.833M per year.
> Again, if the cap is the issue, and I don't think it is, then this
> would be worth doing if he is truly finished. Or get him to retire.
> Or waive him and see if anyone bites. But I'm guessing they are stuck
> with him for this season, and he's a reasonable #7 guy, although way
> too expensive for that...
 >> Stay informed about: Suter contract