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Since: Sep 30, 2006 Posts: 120
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:14 am
Post subject: Weber still not ready for NHL Archived from groups: alt>sports>hockey>nhl>mtl-canadiens (more info?)
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Pat Hickey article from today's Gazette:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Weber+still+ready/1089547/story.html
No discussion about how to fix the Canadiens' broken power play is complete
without a mention of Yannick Weber.
He's the 20-year-old Swiss defenceman who earned rave reviews during
training camp with his booming shot from the point.
He's currently playing for the Hamilton Bulldogs, but there are those who
believe Weber's talents could be put to good use in Montreal, where the
once-feared power play currently ranks 29th in the National Hockey League.
Canadiens coach Guy Carbonneau is not one of those.
"He's not ready," Carbonneau said last week. "He's a prospect, but right now
he's not strong enough defensively to play at this level."
Carbonneau also dismissed the idea of using Weber as a forward on the fourth
line and then moving him to the point in power-play situations, a strategy
that proved successful with another Swiss defender, Mark Streit.
"There's a difference," Carbonneau explained. "Streit was a much stronger
player and he had a lot of international experience that Weber doesn't
have."
So where is Yannick Weber in his development?
Hamilton coach Don Lever said Weber was more polished than he expected, but
that there are still things he needs to learn.
"He has to work on his defensive zone coverage, he has to be better in
one-on-one battles," Lever said. "He's stronger than you think he is and
he's making progress.
"He's going to be a good offensive defenceman."
Weber, who led all Ontario Hockey league defencemen in scoring last season
with 20-35-55 totals when he played for the league-champion Kitchener
Rangers, said the first thing he noticed in making the jump to pro hockey is
that the players are smarter.
"In junior, everybody's running around trying to do things, but the players
in pro hockey are smarter," he said. "They think more about what they're
going to do. They don't waste as much energy."
Weber said he feels fortunate to be in a situation where the coaches work
with him and help him get better. He's hoping to dispel the myth he's a
one-dimensional player and that he is small. He packs a solid 200 pounds on
a 5-foot-11 frame and says he's working to get stronger. And he's also
working with Lever on that shot. As good as it is, Lever said it could be
better.
"The problem is that he was always shooting to score," the coach said.
While that doesn't sound like a bad thing, Lever said it meant that
sometimes Weber was trying to make too good a shot and was missing the net.
Lever tells Weber to try to concentrate on putting the shot on net rather
than trying to pick the top corner.
"When he shoots the puck low, it's very difficult for a goaltender to
handle," Lever said. "We're looking for a shot that's about a foot off the
ground and right on the net."
And anyone who still believes Weber can turn the Canadiens' power play
around overnight should look at the numbers in Hamilton.
Lever said the Bulldogs' power play is "in the middle of the pack" in the
AHL. Weber has scored four of his five goals on the power play and five of
his seven assists. He's a plus-3 in even-strength situations.
Weber has the potential to help the Canadiens' power play at some point, but
this is a team that believes in developing players to make sure they're
ready, and Weber's chance will come later rather than sooner. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Apr 24, 2007 Posts: 402
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 18, 11:14 am, "bloke" wrote:
....
Good and timely article, I hope Habs fans read it. However, perhaps
worth pointing out:
> Weber, who led all Ontario Hockey league defencemen in scoring last season
> with 20-35-55 totals when he played for the league-champion Kitchener
> Rangers, said the first thing he noticed in making the jump to pro hockey is
> that the players are smarter.
He didn't lead the OHL in goals or points. Ryan Wilson had 71 points
and Bobby Sanguinetti had 29 goals. A few other defensemen in
addition to those two also had more points than Weber. Weber was
6th. FWIW.
l8r,
Gerry >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Jul 09, 2008 Posts: 146
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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bloke wrote:
> Pat Hickey article from today's Gazette:
>
> http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/Weber+still+ready/1089547/story.html
>
> No discussion about how to fix the Canadiens' broken power play is complete
> without a mention of Yannick Weber.
>
> He's the 20-year-old Swiss defenceman who earned rave reviews during
> training camp with his booming shot from the point.
>
> He's currently playing for the Hamilton Bulldogs, but there are those who
> believe Weber's talents could be put to good use in Montreal, where the
> once-feared power play currently ranks 29th in the National Hockey League.
>
> Canadiens coach Guy Carbonneau is not one of those.
>
> "He's not ready," Carbonneau said last week. "He's a prospect, but right now
> he's not strong enough defensively to play at this level."
>
> Carbonneau also dismissed the idea of using Weber as a forward on the fourth
> line and then moving him to the point in power-play situations, a strategy
> that proved successful with another Swiss defender, Mark Streit.
>
> "There's a difference," Carbonneau explained. "Streit was a much stronger
> player and he had a lot of international experience that Weber doesn't
> have."
>
> So where is Yannick Weber in his development?
>
> Hamilton coach Don Lever said Weber was more polished than he expected, but
> that there are still things he needs to learn.
>
> "He has to work on his defensive zone coverage, he has to be better in
> one-on-one battles," Lever said. "He's stronger than you think he is and
> he's making progress.
>
> "He's going to be a good offensive defenceman."
>
> Weber, who led all Ontario Hockey league defencemen in scoring last season
> with 20-35-55 totals when he played for the league-champion Kitchener
> Rangers, said the first thing he noticed in making the jump to pro hockey is
> that the players are smarter.
>
> "In junior, everybody's running around trying to do things, but the players
> in pro hockey are smarter," he said. "They think more about what they're
> going to do. They don't waste as much energy."
>
> Weber said he feels fortunate to be in a situation where the coaches work
> with him and help him get better. He's hoping to dispel the myth he's a
> one-dimensional player and that he is small. He packs a solid 200 pounds on
> a 5-foot-11 frame and says he's working to get stronger. And he's also
> working with Lever on that shot. As good as it is, Lever said it could be
> better.
>
> "The problem is that he was always shooting to score," the coach said.
>
> While that doesn't sound like a bad thing, Lever said it meant that
> sometimes Weber was trying to make too good a shot and was missing the net.
> Lever tells Weber to try to concentrate on putting the shot on net rather
> than trying to pick the top corner.
>
> "When he shoots the puck low, it's very difficult for a goaltender to
> handle," Lever said. "We're looking for a shot that's about a foot off the
> ground and right on the net."
>
> And anyone who still believes Weber can turn the Canadiens' power play
> around overnight should look at the numbers in Hamilton.
>
> Lever said the Bulldogs' power play is "in the middle of the pack" in the
> AHL. Weber has scored four of his five goals on the power play and five of
> his seven assists. He's a plus-3 in even-strength situations.
>
> Weber has the potential to help the Canadiens' power play at some point, but
> this is a team that believes in developing players to make sure they're
> ready, and Weber's chance will come later rather than sooner.
>
>
"When he shoots the puck low, it's very difficult for a goaltender to
handle," Lever said. "We're looking for a shot that's about a foot off
the ground and right on the net."
The missing ingredient to our current pp. Its either soft, high, doesn't
get through or 2 feet wide. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Jun 30, 2008 Posts: 155
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Dec 19, 2007 Posts: 44
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Mad Ape wrote in
@news.motzarella.org:
> marty wrote:
>> So it isn't Brisebois
>> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>>
>> Marty
>
> And that's just scary!
>
Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-man would
really be a key to this team.
Marty >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 200
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 19, 1:45 pm, marty wrote:
> Mad Ape wrote in
> @news.motzarella.org:
>
> > marty wrote:
> >> So it isn't Brisebois
> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>
> >> Marty
>
> > And that's just scary!
>
> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-man would
> really be a key to this team.
>
> Marty
Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montreal
give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you see,
is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking at
upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencemen
on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make it
easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide the
other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Dec 19, 2007 Posts: 44
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chuck wrote in
> On Dec 19, 1:45 pm, marty wrote:
>> Mad Ape wrote in
>> @news.motzarella.org:
>>
>> > marty wrote:
>> >> So it isn't Brisebois
>> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>>
>> >> Marty
>>
>> > And that's just scary!
>>
>> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-man
>> woul
> d
>> really be a key to this team.
>>
>> Marty
>
> Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montreal
> give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
> coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
> defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
> postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you see,
> is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
> time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking at
> upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
> Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencemen
> on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make it
> easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
> Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
> load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide the
> other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
> the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
> prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>
I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or even
given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Until the
Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-game that
costs them a goal.
Marty >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 200
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 20, 10:44 am, marty wrote:
> Chuck wrote innews:b20ab781-b816-473a-b584-acf3878218a2@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 1:45 pm, marty wrote:
> >> Mad Ape wrote in
> >> @news.motzarella.org:
>
> >> > marty wrote:
> >> >> So it isn't Brisebois
> >> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>
> >> >> Marty
>
> >> > And that's just scary!
>
> >> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-man
> >> woul
> > d
> >> really be a key to this team.
>
> >> Marty
>
> > Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montreal
> > give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
> > coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
> > defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
> > postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you see,
> > is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
> > time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking at
> > upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
> > Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencemen
> > on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make it
> > easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
> > Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
> > load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide the
> > other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
> > the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
> > prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>
> I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
> prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or even
> given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Until the
> Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-game that
> costs them a goal.
>
> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Unfortunately he is not the only defencemen making a "goof per game".
The problem is can the remainder of the defence corp carry the load if
Carbo shortens the bench at key times in the game? Do they have a
strong enough top 4 to have their minutes stretched, to bench a rookie
defenceman late in a game? As for trading O`Bryne, it could be forced
more by the fact he would have cheaper waiveable players pushing him
next season. He likely has some trade value now, that it is still
early in the season, if he is still a part timer next season, he will
have no trade value. But there likely are teams that would pick him up
that can afford to live with his mistakes ala Hainsey and Beauchemen.
Can he develop sitting in the pressbox? If he is to be lost, it would
be nice to get something in return rather the repeating waiver gambles >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 200
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 20, 7:13 pm, tarkk... DeleteThis @cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
> In Chuck writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 20, 10:44=A0am, marty wrote:
> >> Chuck wrote innews:b20ab781-b816-473a-b584-acf=
> >387821...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > On Dec 19, 1:45=A0pm, marty wrote:
> >> >> Mad Ape wrote in
> >> >> @news.motzarella.org:
>
> >> >> > marty wrote:
> >> >> >> So it isn't Brisebois
> >> >> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>
> >> >> >> Marty
>
> >> >> > And that's just scary!
>
> >> >> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-man
> >> >> woul
> >> > d
> >> >> really be a key to this team.
>
> >> >> Marty
>
> >> > Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montreal
> >> > give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
> >> > coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
> >> > defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
> >> > postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you see,
> >> > is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
> >> > time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking at
> >> > upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
> >> > Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencemen
> >> > on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make it
> >> > easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
> >> > Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
> >> > load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide the
> >> > other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
> >> > the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
> >> > prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>
> >> I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
> >> prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or even
> >> given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Until the
> >> Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-game that
> >> costs them a goal.
>
> >> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >Unfortunately he is not the only defencemen making a "goof per game".
> >The problem is can the remainder of the defence corp carry the load if
> >Carbo shortens the bench at key times in the game? Do they have a
> >strong enough top 4 to have their minutes stretched, to bench a rookie
> >defenceman late in a game? As for trading O`Bryne, it could be forced
> >more by the fact he would have cheaper waiveable players pushing him
> >next season. He likely has some trade value now, that it is still
> >early in the season, if he is still a part timer next season, he will
> >have no trade value. But there likely are teams that would pick him up
> >that can afford to live with his mistakes ala Hainsey and Beauchemen.
> >Can he develop sitting in the pressbox? If he is to be lost, it would
> >be nice to get something in return rather the repeating waiver gambles
>
> Looks like Josh Gorges is responding well to +20 minutes of icetime. So,
> if Markov - Komissarek play somewhere 24-26 minutes and Hamrlik - Gorges
> play some 22-24 minutes, then for Bouillion - Brisebois (Dandenault, if
> he comes back after his injury) is left 10-14 minutes and they should be
> able to handle it.
>
> - Lauri Tarkkonen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
One of the veterans you mentioned would still have to get out of the
way to create room to give a player such as O'Bryne (Or other similar
rookie defencemen, some regular icetime) I see O'Bryne is not playing
tonight. He is not going to improve in the pressbox. he needs to face
NHL level quality to improve. If they feel he can`t then it would be
better to move him sooner, if they are not willing to invest playing
time in him anymore. Or start holding it against him, that when he
does play, he is rusty from sitting more then playing. Gainey has
given the team some depth in the development system, now he needs to
choose who to keep who to move, since there likely is not enough room
for all of them, if all they can break in is 1 rookie defenceman a
year. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 200
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 20, 8:01 pm, tarkk....RemoveThis@cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
> In Chuck writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 20, 7:13=A0pm, tarkk....RemoveThis@cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
> >> In Ch=
> >uck writes:
>
> >> >On Dec 20, 10:44=3DA0am, marty wrote:
> >> >> Chuck wrote innews:b20ab781-b816-473a-b584-=
> >acf=3D
> >> >387821...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> >> > On Dec 19, 1:45=3DA0pm, marty wrote:
> >> >> >> Mad Ape wrote in
> >> >> >> @news.motzarella.org:
>
> >> >> >> > marty wrote:
> >> >> >> >> So it isn't Brisebois
> >> >> >> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>
> >> >> >> >> Marty
>
> >> >> >> > And that's just scary!
>
> >> >> >> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-ma=
> >n
> >> >> >> woul
> >> >> > d
> >> >> >> really be a key to this team.
>
> >> >> >> Marty
>
> >> >> > Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montrea=
> >l
> >> >> > give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
> >> >> > coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
> >> >> > defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
> >> >> > postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you se=
> >e,
> >> >> > is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
> >> >> > time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking a=
> >t
> >> >> > upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
> >> >> > Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencem=
> >en
> >> >> > on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make i=
> >t
> >> >> > easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
> >> >> > Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
> >> >> > load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide th=
> >e
> >> >> > other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
> >> >> > the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
> >> >> > prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>
> >> >> I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
> >> >> prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or even
> >> >> given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Until =
> >the
> >> >> Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-game t=
> >hat
> >> >> costs them a goal.
>
> >> >> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
> >> >Unfortunately he is not the only defencemen making a "goof per game".
> >> >The problem is can the remainder of the defence corp carry the load if
> >> >Carbo shortens the bench =A0at key times in the game? Do they have a
> >> >strong enough top 4 to have their minutes stretched, to bench a rookie
> >> >defenceman late in a game? As for trading O`Bryne, it could be forced
> >> >more by the fact he would have cheaper waiveable players pushing him
> >> >next season. He likely has some trade value now, that it is still
> >> >early in the season, if he is still a part timer next season, he will
> >> >have no trade value. But there likely are teams that would pick him up
> >> >that can afford to live with his mistakes ala Hainsey and Beauchemen.
> >> >Can he develop sitting in the pressbox? If he is to be lost, it would
> >> >be nice to get something in return rather the repeating waiver gambles
>
> >> Looks like Josh Gorges is responding well to +20 minutes of icetime. So,
> >> if Markov - Komissarek play somewhere 24-26 minutes and Hamrlik - Gorges
> >> play some 22-24 minutes, then for Bouillion - Brisebois (Dandenault, if
> >> he comes back after his injury) is left 10-14 minutes and they should be
> >> able to handle it.
>
> >> - Lauri Tarkkonen- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >One of the veterans you mentioned would still have to get out of the
> >way to create room to give a player such as O'Bryne (Or other similar
> >rookie defencemen, some regular icetime) I see O'Bryne is not playing
> >tonight. He is not going to improve in the pressbox. he needs to face
> >NHL level quality to improve. If they feel he can`t then it would be
> >better to move him sooner, if they are not willing to invest playing
> >time in him anymore. Or start holding it against him, that when he
> >does play, he is rusty from sitting more then playing. Gainey has
> >given the team some depth in the development system, now he needs to
> >choose who to keep who to move, since there likely is not enough room
> >for all of them, if all they can break in is 1 rookie defenceman a
> >year.
>
> The life is hard and sometimes not even just. The coach has to win a
> hockey game and a championship. If some of the veterans can give more on
> the ice today, they are boing to play. We can say, that the two first
> pairs in the Habs defence are more or less fixed. By the way, Gorges got
> his spotī, even though he was sitting in the pressbox for the most of
> his first season and when he got some icetime he did the best he could.
> O'Byrne has got more of a chance in his early games than Gorges. O'Byrne
> got to play with Hammerlik and bigger minutes than Gorges, who played
> with Bouillion. When he got his chance to play with Markov, he made most
> of it and is now in the second pair ahead of O'Byrne. It is not that he
> got beaten out by Brisebois or Dandenault, he got beaten out by Gorges.
>
> D'Agostini got his chance and he concentrated on his weaknesses,
> defensive coverage and worked on his offence, keepig it simple not
> fooling around and capitalizing on the chances he got.
>
> The idea that you should trade or dismiss a player if he does not
> immediately make it and that if you once gave him the chance, you have
> to do it indefinitely icetime ahead of some veteran, who is better at
> the moment but does not have too much upside, is not a very realistic
> one. How do you know if O'Byrne will ever be better than Dandenault or
> Brisebois, or of course he will when thesse two are beyond theyr
> fifties, but not yeat. If you have space for O'Byrne, you keep him, help
> him perhaps with a personal trainer, and give him a chance when the
> situation warrants it. Perhaps he will, perhaps not. It is possible that
> Weber, PK Subban or any of the prospects pass him already during the
> next or following season, but until that he has his chances, if one of
> the better players are away, and he should try to make the most of it.
>
> - Lauri Tarkkonen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
O'Bryne may still have a future with the team. If he spends the
remainder of the season as a part time spare, I think there is a good
chance other depth defencemen may pass him next year. If he is at a
stage where he would have to be waived to be sent down, then there is
a good chance he would be lost. It would not hurt much since the depth
would be filling the vacancy rather then an aging veteran. But I trust
Gainey would not give him away, just consider moving him if they
project players will pass him next year, and he gets a good offer this
year to shore up the team this year rather then get less for him next
year.
Brisebois has been on the ice for both Buffalo goals. Chewing up PP
time not doing much, lets see if that gets O'Bryne back into the next
game. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: May 04, 2004 Posts: 269
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In Chuck writes:
>On Dec 20, 10:44=A0am, marty wrote:
>> Chuck wrote innews:b20ab781-b816-473a-b584-acf=
>3878218a2@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 19, 1:45=A0pm, marty wrote:
>> >> Mad Ape wrote in
>> >> @news.motzarella.org:
>>
>> >> > marty wrote:
>> >> >> So it isn't Brisebois
>> >> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>>
>> >> >> Marty
>>
>> >> > And that's just scary!
>>
>> >> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-man
>> >> woul
>> > d
>> >> really be a key to this team.
>>
>> >> Marty
>>
>> > Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montreal
>> > give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
>> > coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
>> > defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
>> > postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you see,
>> > is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
>> > time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking at
>> > upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
>> > Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencemen
>> > on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make it
>> > easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
>> > Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
>> > load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide the
>> > other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
>> > the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
>> > prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>>
>> I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
>> prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or even
>> given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Until the
>> Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-game that
>> costs them a goal.
>>
>> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>Unfortunately he is not the only defencemen making a "goof per game".
>The problem is can the remainder of the defence corp carry the load if
>Carbo shortens the bench at key times in the game? Do they have a
>strong enough top 4 to have their minutes stretched, to bench a rookie
>defenceman late in a game? As for trading O`Bryne, it could be forced
>more by the fact he would have cheaper waiveable players pushing him
>next season. He likely has some trade value now, that it is still
>early in the season, if he is still a part timer next season, he will
>have no trade value. But there likely are teams that would pick him up
>that can afford to live with his mistakes ala Hainsey and Beauchemen.
>Can he develop sitting in the pressbox? If he is to be lost, it would
>be nice to get something in return rather the repeating waiver gambles
Looks like Josh Gorges is responding well to +20 minutes of icetime. So,
if Markov - Komissarek play somewhere 24-26 minutes and Hamrlik - Gorges
play some 22-24 minutes, then for Bouillion - Brisebois (Dandenault, if
he comes back after his injury) is left 10-14 minutes and they should be
able to handle it.
- Lauri Tarkkonen >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 200
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 20, 9:32 pm, tarkk... RemoveThis @cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
>
> The Mighty Leafs lead the Penquins 7 to 2, even this result is difficult
> to understand.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pens are weak on defence, combined with a bad night from their goalies
= a team that can be beat, if you can keep the puck in the Pen's end
most of the game, which Toronto was able to do with 46 shots on goal.
Malkin and Crosby can`t carry their team from the defensive zone. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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Since: May 04, 2004 Posts: 269
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In Chuck writes:
>On Dec 20, 7:13=A0pm, tarkk....TakeThisOut@cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
>> In Ch=
>uck writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Dec 20, 10:44=3DA0am, marty wrote:
>> >> Chuck wrote innews:b20ab781-b816-473a-b584-=
>acf=3D
>> >387821...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> > On Dec 19, 1:45=3DA0pm, marty wrote:
>> >> >> Mad Ape wrote in
>> >> >> @news.motzarella.org:
>>
>> >> >> > marty wrote:
>> >> >> >> So it isn't Brisebois
>> >> >> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>>
>> >> >> >> Marty
>>
>> >> >> > And that's just scary!
>>
>> >> >> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d-ma=
>n
>> >> >> woul
>> >> > d
>> >> >> really be a key to this team.
>>
>> >> >> Marty
>>
>> >> > Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Montrea=
>l
>> >> > give him or anyother player in their system a full regular position
>> >> > coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
>> >> > defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
>> >> > postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you se=
>e,
>> >> > is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of development
>> >> > time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were looking a=
>t
>> >> > upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillon.
>> >> > Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defencem=
>en
>> >> > on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would make i=
>t
>> >> > easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a game.
>> >> > Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of the
>> >> > load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide th=
>e
>> >> > other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring up
>> >> > the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
>> >> > prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>>
>> >> I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
>> >> prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or even
>> >> given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Until =
>the
>> >> Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-game t=
>hat
>> >> costs them a goal.
>>
>> >> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >Unfortunately he is not the only defencemen making a "goof per game".
>> >The problem is can the remainder of the defence corp carry the load if
>> >Carbo shortens the bench =A0at key times in the game? Do they have a
>> >strong enough top 4 to have their minutes stretched, to bench a rookie
>> >defenceman late in a game? As for trading O`Bryne, it could be forced
>> >more by the fact he would have cheaper waiveable players pushing him
>> >next season. He likely has some trade value now, that it is still
>> >early in the season, if he is still a part timer next season, he will
>> >have no trade value. But there likely are teams that would pick him up
>> >that can afford to live with his mistakes ala Hainsey and Beauchemen.
>> >Can he develop sitting in the pressbox? If he is to be lost, it would
>> >be nice to get something in return rather the repeating waiver gambles
>>
>> Looks like Josh Gorges is responding well to +20 minutes of icetime. So,
>> if Markov - Komissarek play somewhere 24-26 minutes and Hamrlik - Gorges
>> play some 22-24 minutes, then for Bouillion - Brisebois (Dandenault, if
>> he comes back after his injury) is left 10-14 minutes and they should be
>> able to handle it.
>>
>> - Lauri Tarkkonen- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>One of the veterans you mentioned would still have to get out of the
>way to create room to give a player such as O'Bryne (Or other similar
>rookie defencemen, some regular icetime) I see O'Bryne is not playing
>tonight. He is not going to improve in the pressbox. he needs to face
>NHL level quality to improve. If they feel he can`t then it would be
>better to move him sooner, if they are not willing to invest playing
>time in him anymore. Or start holding it against him, that when he
>does play, he is rusty from sitting more then playing. Gainey has
>given the team some depth in the development system, now he needs to
>choose who to keep who to move, since there likely is not enough room
>for all of them, if all they can break in is 1 rookie defenceman a
>year.
The life is hard and sometimes not even just. The coach has to win a
hockey game and a championship. If some of the veterans can give more on
the ice today, they are boing to play. We can say, that the two first
pairs in the Habs defence are more or less fixed. By the way, Gorges got
his spotī, even though he was sitting in the pressbox for the most of
his first season and when he got some icetime he did the best he could.
O'Byrne has got more of a chance in his early games than Gorges. O'Byrne
got to play with Hammerlik and bigger minutes than Gorges, who played
with Bouillion. When he got his chance to play with Markov, he made most
of it and is now in the second pair ahead of O'Byrne. It is not that he
got beaten out by Brisebois or Dandenault, he got beaten out by Gorges.
D'Agostini got his chance and he concentrated on his weaknesses,
defensive coverage and worked on his offence, keepig it simple not
fooling around and capitalizing on the chances he got.
The idea that you should trade or dismiss a player if he does not
immediately make it and that if you once gave him the chance, you have
to do it indefinitely icetime ahead of some veteran, who is better at
the moment but does not have too much upside, is not a very realistic
one. How do you know if O'Byrne will ever be better than Dandenault or
Brisebois, or of course he will when thesse two are beyond theyr
fifties, but not yeat. If you have space for O'Byrne, you keep him, help
him perhaps with a personal trainer, and give him a chance when the
situation warrants it. Perhaps he will, perhaps not. It is possible that
Weber, PK Subban or any of the prospects pass him already during the
next or following season, but until that he has his chances, if one of
the better players are away, and he should try to make the most of it.
- Lauri Tarkkonen >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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External

Since: May 04, 2004 Posts: 269
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Weber still not ready for NHL [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In Chuck writes:
>On Dec 20, 8:01=A0pm, tarkk... DeleteThis @cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
>> In Ch=
>uck writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Dec 20, 7:13=3DA0pm, tarkk... DeleteThis @cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote:
>> >> In =
> Ch=3D
>> >uck writes:
>>
>> >> >On Dec 20, 10:44=3D3DA0am, marty wrote:
>> >> >> Chuck wrote innews:b20ab781-b816-473a-b5=
>84-=3D
>> >acf=3D3D
>> >> >387821...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> >> > On Dec 19, 1:45=3D3DA0pm, marty wrote=
>:
>> >> >> >> Mad Ape wrote in
>> >> >> >> @news.motzarella.org:
>>
>> >> >> >> > marty wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> So it isn't Brisebois
>> >> >> >> >> on the bubble, it is O'Byrne.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Marty
>>
>> >> >> >> > And that's just scary!
>>
>> >> >> >> Yes, well, that's why we've adjusting to thinking that another d=
>-ma=3D
>> >n
>> >> >> >> woul
>> >> >> > d
>> >> >> >> really be a key to this team.
>>
>> >> >> >> Marty
>>
>> >> >> > Even if O`Bryne spent another full season in Hamilton, would Mont=
>rea=3D
>> >l
>> >> >> > give him or anyother player in their system a full regular positi=
>on
>> >> >> > coming out of training camp? How many team's have number 6 and 7
>> >> >> > defencemen who play error free hockey. O`Bryne is young with the
>> >> >> > postential to improve, Breezy has more then reached the "What you=
> se=3D
>> >e,
>> >> >> > is what you get" stage of his career. After 15+ years of developm=
>ent
>> >> >> > time, Breezer's bad habits are now locked in. If they were lookin=
>g a=3D
>> >t
>> >> >> > upgrades, I think it would have to come at the expense of Bouillo=
>n.
>> >> >> > Getting a top end defenceman who can increase the number of defen=
>cem=3D
>> >en
>> >> >> > on the team who can play 25 mins, and remain effective, would mak=
>e i=3D
>> >t
>> >> >> > easier for Carbo to bench weaker defencemen at key points in a ga=
>me.
>> >> >> > Anaheim has been successful with 4 defencemen carrying most of th=
>e
>> >> >> > load. They could still end up moving O`Bryne aswell, maybe decide=
> th=3D
>> >e
>> >> >> > other defencemen in the system have better potential. But shoring=
> up
>> >> >> > the top 4 would make it easier to break in any of their other
>> >> >> > prospects, should they decide O'Brynes time is up.
>>
>> >> >> I will point out I'm a long way from thinking O'Byrne is a busted
>> >> >> prospect, but he's having a rough season and should be spotted or e=
>ven
>> >> >> given a stint in Hamilton with big minutes to work on his game. Unt=
>il =3D
>> >the
>> >> >> Habs get rolling, they can't afford him to be making a goof-per-gam=
>e t=3D
>> >hat
>> >> >> costs them a goal.
>>
>> >> >> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >Unfortunately he is not the only defencemen making a "goof per game".
>> >> >The problem is can the remainder of the defence corp carry the load i=
>f
>> >> >Carbo shortens the bench =3DA0at key times in the game? Do they have =
>a
>> >> >strong enough top 4 to have their minutes stretched, to bench a rooki=
>e
>> >> >defenceman late in a game? As for trading O`Bryne, it could be forced
>> >> >more by the fact he would have cheaper waiveable players pushing him
>> >> >next season. He likely has some trade value now, that it is still
>> >> >early in the season, if he is still a part timer next season, he will
>> >> >have no trade value. But there likely are teams that would pick him u=
>p
>> >> >that can afford to live with his mistakes ala Hainsey and Beauchemen.
>> >> >Can he develop sitting in the pressbox? If he is to be lost, it would
>> >> >be nice to get something in return rather the repeating waiver gamble=
>s
>>
>> >> Looks like Josh Gorges is responding well to +20 minutes of icetime. S=
>o,
>> >> if Markov - Komissarek play somewhere 24-26 minutes and Hamrlik - Gorg=
>es
>> >> play some 22-24 minutes, then for Bouillion - Brisebois (Dandenault, i=
>f
>> >> he comes back after his injury) is left 10-14 minutes and they should =
>be
>> >> able to handle it.
>>
>> >> - Lauri Tarkkonen- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >One of the veterans you mentioned would still have to get out of the
>> >way to create room to give a player such as O'Bryne (Or other similar
>> >rookie defencemen, some regular icetime) I see O'Bryne is not playing
>> >tonight. He is not going to improve in the pressbox. he needs to face
>> >NHL level quality to improve. If they feel he can`t then it would be
>> >better to move him sooner, if they are not willing to invest playing
>> >time in him anymore. Or start holding it against him, that when he
>> >does play, he is rusty from sitting more then playing. Gainey has
>> >given the team some depth in the development system, now he needs to
>> >choose who to keep who to move, since there likely is not enough room
>> >for all of them, if all they can break in is 1 rookie defenceman a
>> >year.
>>
>> The life is hard and sometimes not even just. The coach has to win a
>> hockey game and a championship. If some of the veterans can give more on
>> the ice today, they are boing to play. We can say, that the two first
>> pairs in the Habs defence are more or less fixed. By the way, Gorges got
>> his spot=B4, even though he was sitting in the pressbox for the most of
>> his first season and when he got some icetime he did the best he could.
>> O'Byrne has got more of a chance in his early games than Gorges. O'Byrne
>> got to play with Hammerlik and bigger minutes than Gorges, who played
>> with Bouillion. When he got his chance to play with Markov, he made most
>> of it and is now in the second pair ahead of O'Byrne. It is not that he
>> got beaten out by Brisebois or Dandenault, he got beaten out by Gorges.
>>
>> D'Agostini got his chance and he concentrated on his weaknesses,
>> defensive coverage and worked on his offence, keepig it simple not
>> fooling around and capitalizing on the chances he got.
>>
>> The idea that you should trade or dismiss a player if he does not
>> immediately make it and that if you once gave him the chance, you have
>> to do it indefinitely icetime ahead of some veteran, who is better at
>> the moment but does not have too much upside, is not a very realistic
>> one. How do you know if O'Byrne will ever be better than Dandenault or
>> Brisebois, or of course he will when thesse two are beyond theyr
>> fifties, but not yeat. If you have space for O'Byrne, you keep him, help
>> him perhaps with a personal trainer, and give him a chance when the
>> situation warrants it. Perhaps he will, perhaps not. It is possible that
>> Weber, PK Subban or any of the prospects pass him already during the
>> next or following season, but until that he has his chances, if one of
>> the better players are away, and he should try to make the most of it.
>>
>> - Lauri Tarkkonen- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>O'Bryne may still have a future with the team. If he spends the
>remainder of the season as a part time spare, I think there is a good
>chance other depth defencemen may pass him next year. If he is at a
>stage where he would have to be waived to be sent down, then there is
>a good chance he would be lost. It would not hurt much since the depth
>would be filling the vacancy rather then an aging veteran. But I trust
>Gainey would not give him away, just consider moving him if they
>project players will pass him next year, and he gets a good offer this
>year to shore up the team this year rather then get less for him next
>year.
O'Byrne has all the chances to make the team ahead of some other
prospects, it depends on him and how he is using tha chanches he
eventually will get. Anyway next year he has an advantage over the
newcomers, he knows the systems and knows what is expceted from him.
The main question is how he developes. It is not so much in skill and
strenght but mental strennght.
>Brisebois has been on the ice for both Buffalo goals. Chewing up PP
>time not doing much, lets see if that gets O'Bryne back into the next
>game.
The other one was the last second of the penalty, before Kovalev had
time to participate in anything. By the way Alexei has not two a bit
dubious penalties for holding in the other end and bot have costed the
Canadiens one goal. Miller has the habit of beating the Canadiens, but
the Habs just tied the game, so perhaps they can get away with it.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
PS:
Of topic: The Flyers beat Capitals, 7 to 1, Niittymaki stops 46 shots
and is the first star.
The Mighty Leafs lead the Penquins 7 to 2, even this result is difficult
to understand. >> Stay informed about: Weber still not ready for NHL |
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| Related Topics: | Habs sign Weber - http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=246408&lid=sublink05&lpos=headlines_nhl don't know anything about him but perhaps Streit replacement in a few years.
An interesting thought... - We're all expecting Price to rip it up in camp and turn Huet into excess baggage. But what if he doesn't? What if he and Halak are good, but not outstanding...and *Huet* is the best goalie? It gets a lot tougher for Gainey to pull the trigger on a..
What's happened to Souray? - Obviously he didn't want to return to Montreal, but if he ends up signing for 5 mill or less and doesn't go to the west coast isn't that just a little bit embarrasing for him? I think he overestimated his value some.
Tommy Non-stopoulos? - >From the Gazette: Canadiens fans will be interested in an email I received the other day from Tom Hedican, who gives his seal of approval to the Canadiens' acquisition of veteran forward Tom Kostopoulos. You might recall that Hedican played a key...
All I'm hoping... - ....is that the Habs win the Cup before 2011. Because if they don't win it by then, all the players in that draft year will have been born AFTER the Habs' last Cup. I think that's pretty much unprecedented in club history. In fact, I'm getting older. ... |
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