It is coming, concentration, effort, powerplay and wins.

On Dec 22, 11:25 am, marty wrote:
> Chuck wrote innews:f6cdab08-4504-4d6b-b2c8-3f2851b54a5d@m15g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 21, 10:31 pm, marty wrote:
> >> Chuck wrote
> >> innews:0998a9ea-e752-4098-a28f-a55
> > fec9d5....TakeThisOut@f11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > Speaking of Mahovlich, Pollock was willing to trade potential for a
> >> > veteran, who was able to help the team for more then just a single
> >> > season. Could Gainey pull off a similar trade today? Without the
> >> > recent injuries D'Ags would still be in Hamilton, and we would
> >> > still be waiting for Gainey to make player decisions, is he willing
> >> > to move players to free up room for potential help down in
> >> > Hamilton, or will he wait till injuries makes the choices easier
>
> >> Chuck, I don't know how you cannot see that, if anything, Montreal
> >> has been one of the league's biggest pushers of young players the
> >> last few years. Carbonneau pushes young players all the time, and
> >> only falls back to vets when the young guys aren't playing hard or
> >> can't the job done. You speak of D'ag's, but not many coaches would
> >> have immediately thrown him on the top line to see what he had. On
> >> the player personnel side, Gainey had promoted many young guys. Few,
> >> if any, other GM would have traded Huet and thrown the goaltending
> >> duties to two rookies.
>
> >> There are no legit complaints about this team not pushing young
> >> players. They do, however, have the common sense to not gut their
> >> team of veterans, meaning that when a injury flood happens, they are
> >> able to call up AHL players who can play acceptable and occasionally
> >> might be lucky enough enough to find that one is ready to stick in
> >> the NHL. That's preferable to having to call up guys who have no
> >> business being in a NHL rink unless it is to sell peanuts. If the
> >> Habs didn't have any spare vets, that would mean the likes of Maxwell
> >> and D'ags would having been warming NHL benches to start the season,
> >> and when a slew on injuries occured, God-knows-who would have had to
> >> been called up. I'd prefer 3rd line AHL talent never has to play for
> >> the Habs.
>
> >> Marty
>
> > Montreal has too many players who disappear from the score sheets for
> > lengthy periods. If they want to move up and push the teams at the
> > top. They still have players they will need to upgrade. They can go
> > the trade route or promote from within. They will be waiting a very
> > long time before Brisebois plays a role in pushing the PP to the top
> > again or even up to just average. It would be silly to bring up too
> > many players at once. But when the team is healthy, even bringing up 1
> > player is not an option unless someone is waived or traded.
> > Fortunately, with D'Ags getting called up as a injury fill in has been
> > a great gain for Montreal. Without any injuries, and with a few
> > players struggling would they have called him up? I just think it
> > would be in the team's best interest to have one of the spare roster
> > positions open for players who could be called up, to push under
> > achieving players for their job.
>
> Montreal is in the great position of having competition on the roster for
> jobs constantly. S. Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Lapierre, Kostopolous, Begin,
> Dandenault (until he got injured) and Laraque all battle for the final 3-
> 4 slots in the lineup. Montreal has great internal competition for
> icetime. The fact that Montreal doesn't have to necessarily rely on a
> shuttle from Hamilton to wake up players on their team is a strength, not
> a weakness. You can't be calling up different players every few days, but
> Begin can take your spot in the line-up at any moment and play some high
> energy games and occasionally bang in a puck. He can show more skilled
> guys that it also takes hard work to get in a line-up. I know you would
> counter he does not have offensive skills or passing skills, but he's a
> 4th liner. Show me the team loaded with offensively gifted 4th liners! It
> is good to have a vet who won't complain like Begin on the bench, ready
> to step into the shoes of players like S. Kostitsyn who go 15+ games with
> hardly scoring a point. He's their wake-up call.
>
> As for Hamilton, many players have been promoted from there over the last
> 4 years. Montreal started this season with a lot of depth. Maybe even a
> touch more than they needed, but critisisizing them for this moment-in-
> time that they didn't have a spot open for a youngster is unecessary.
> Injuries are a inevitable part of hockey, so saying that D'ag only got a
> chance because of injury is like saying the flower only got a chance to
> grow because the sun came up! It always happens. The chance for a
> youngster from Hamilton to get to play was always going to be there,
> sooner or later.
>
> Marty- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Problem is giving a 4th liner someone's icetime is only a short term
wake up call. Having a player, who can step up and snatch the position
away for good, frees up players with higher trade value. Players who
could, if traded could return players who could upgrade the defence,
or move the team up in the Junior draft with either more 1st rounders
or to trade up to a higher pick to get higher ranked juniors who could
become future franchise players. D'Ags could make Higgins expendable,
and Higgins would have more trade value then any current 4th liner the
team has.
 >> Stay informed about: It is coming, concentration, effort, powerplay and wins. 

Chuck wrote in


> On Dec 21, 10:31 pm, marty wrote:
>> Chuck wrote
>> innews:0998a9ea-e752-4098-a28f-a55
> fec9d5c30.DeleteThis@f11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Speaking of Mahovlich, Pollock was willing to trade potential for a
>> > veteran, who was able to help the team for more then just a single
>> > season. Could Gainey pull off a similar trade today? Without the
>> > recent injuries D'Ags would still be in Hamilton, and we would
>> > still be waiting for Gainey to make player decisions, is he willing
>> > to move players to free up room for potential help down in
>> > Hamilton, or will he wait till injuries makes the choices easier
>>
>> Chuck, I don't know how you cannot see that, if anything, Montreal
>> has been one of the league's biggest pushers of young players the
>> last few years. Carbonneau pushes young players all the time, and
>> only falls back to vets when the young guys aren't playing hard or
>> can't the job done. You speak of D'ag's, but not many coaches would
>> have immediately thrown him on the top line to see what he had. On
>> the player personnel side, Gainey had promoted many young guys. Few,
>> if any, other GM would have traded Huet and thrown the goaltending
>> duties to two rookies.
>>
>> There are no legit complaints about this team not pushing young
>> players. They do, however, have the common sense to not gut their
>> team of veterans, meaning that when a injury flood happens, they are
>> able to call up AHL players who can play acceptable and occasionally
>> might be lucky enough enough to find that one is ready to stick in
>> the NHL. That's preferable to having to call up guys who have no
>> business being in a NHL rink unless it is to sell peanuts. If the
>> Habs didn't have any spare vets, that would mean the likes of Maxwell
>> and D'ags would having been warming NHL benches to start the season,
>> and when a slew on injuries occured, God-knows-who would have had to
>> been called up. I'd prefer 3rd line AHL talent never has to play for
>> the Habs.
>>
>> Marty
>
> Montreal has too many players who disappear from the score sheets for
> lengthy periods. If they want to move up and push the teams at the
> top. They still have players they will need to upgrade. They can go
> the trade route or promote from within. They will be waiting a very
> long time before Brisebois plays a role in pushing the PP to the top
> again or even up to just average. It would be silly to bring up too
> many players at once. But when the team is healthy, even bringing up 1
> player is not an option unless someone is waived or traded.
> Fortunately, with D'Ags getting called up as a injury fill in has been
> a great gain for Montreal. Without any injuries, and with a few
> players struggling would they have called him up? I just think it
> would be in the team's best interest to have one of the spare roster
> positions open for players who could be called up, to push under
> achieving players for their job.

Montreal is in the great position of having competition on the roster for
jobs constantly. S. Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Lapierre, Kostopolous, Begin,
Dandenault (until he got injured) and Laraque all battle for the final 3-
4 slots in the lineup. Montreal has great internal competition for
icetime. The fact that Montreal doesn't have to necessarily rely on a
shuttle from Hamilton to wake up players on their team is a strength, not
a weakness. You can't be calling up different players every few days, but
Begin can take your spot in the line-up at any moment and play some high
energy games and occasionally bang in a puck. He can show more skilled
guys that it also takes hard work to get in a line-up. I know you would
counter he does not have offensive skills or passing skills, but he's a
4th liner. Show me the team loaded with offensively gifted 4th liners! It
is good to have a vet who won't complain like Begin on the bench, ready
to step into the shoes of players like S. Kostitsyn who go 15+ games with
hardly scoring a point. He's their wake-up call.

As for Hamilton, many players have been promoted from there over the last
4 years. Montreal started this season with a lot of depth. Maybe even a
touch more than they needed, but critisisizing them for this moment-in-
time that they didn't have a spot open for a youngster is unecessary.
Injuries are a inevitable part of hockey, so saying that D'ag only got a
chance because of injury is like saying the flower only got a chance to
grow because the sun came up! It always happens. The chance for a
youngster from Hamilton to get to play was always going to be there,
sooner or later.

Marty
 >> Stay informed about: It is coming, concentration, effort, powerplay and wins.