What's the deal with Sopel?

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:47:26 -0400, "HockeyinHD" <hidden DeleteThis @home.com>
wrote:

>
>"Chris" <noone DeleteThis @goaway.com> wrote in message
>news:9iaoe3lh02mg73o5htqd1sutrsvejp1i8j@4ax.com...
>
>Ny news server is intermittent (thanks Insight... tools) so if this has
>already appeared, blame them I guess.
>
>>>> Take away Lidstrom and show me the difference.
>>>
>>>Does Detroit get to use his 7.6 mil to replace him?
>>
>> With what's left in the UFA pool? Sure, go right ahead.
>
>If we remove Lidstrom, and then
>only give the Wings UFA scraps to replace him with (like Markov and Sopel),
>Colorado's D is comparable (I still think it's worse, but whatever, I'm
>never going to be able to convince you or Tom of that).

Not likely, no - not without Lidstrom. The Avs' defense has improved
a nice chunk from what we had last year though, and that's a good
thing.

I'm not happy about the Brett Clark $3Mper extension, but other than
that, the Avs did some nice things this offseason. I believe the two
big questions we have going into the season are Budaj's play and
Leopold's health. Injuries aside, I think they're a 100+ point team.

>>>HD. (This is Eric, btw).
>>
>> Nice to speak with you again. How is everything?
>
>Oh, fine. Bored, mostly. Slow time of year business-wise (thanks, Big
>Three... tools.). Pining for a decent pizza, which is not to be found in
>the state of Indiana, as I've discovered.

I've found it tough to find good pizza outside of the northeast US.
You've got to find one of those NY Italian transplants who start a
pizza shop and ship in the PollyO cheese and make the sauce right,
etc. Hard to find, but there are a few out there.

Overall, did the move to Indy work out OK?

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Chris" <noone RemoveThis @goaway.com> wrote in message
news:gipoe3lppqvr1hpan4aqdc8p2mjq5ls8f8@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:47:26 -0400, "HockeyinHD" <hidden RemoveThis @home.com>
> wrote:

> Not likely, no - not without Lidstrom. The Avs' defense has improved
> a nice chunk from what we had last year though, and that's a good
> thing.

I suppose I don't see it. As far as I can remember the Avs added Hannan and
lost Klee and Vaaaananaaaanen, right? Hannan was a +1 on a team that was
+22. 4 dmen were better +/-, no regular contributor (50+ games) was lower.
IMO Klee was your most dependable defender last year (as evidenced by a +18
on a +11 team while doing nothing offensively himself). Vaaanannen was a
3rd pairing guy, so I don't think he's terribly relevant. IMO the move was
lateral, mostly.

Having watched Detroit have a surfeit of skilled defensemen, I suppose my
bias in that regard makes me rather leery of a team with only 1.5 such
players (Liles and Clark). Skrastins, Hannan, Leopold, Sauer and any of the
other depth guys are really moderately bad puckmovers.

> I'm not happy about the Brett Clark $3Mper extension, but other than
> that, the Avs did some nice things this offseason. I believe the two
> big questions we have going into the season are Budaj's play and
> Leopold's health. Injuries aside, I think they're a 100+ point team.

Well, you've got Keenan in your division so that ought to add 5-10 points to
every other NW team right there. The Flames better get all their impending
FAs signed before the second week of camp.

> Overall, did the move to Indy work out OK?

Professionally it was great. Still is, albeit somewhat less so right now.
Moving 300+ miles away from the whole family is sort of a drag, though.
Plans are in the works for us to go back, but that's probably 6+ months out.
Most of that hangs on a couple imponderables which may or may not fall into
place. That, and whether I end up having the granite stones necessary to
take a moderately gigantic professional leap of faith in a semi-start-up
with a personal buy-in threatening mid 6 figures... which, for those keeping
score at home, is pretty much a 'Degree All-In Moment."

HD.
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Chris" <noone.DeleteThis@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:gipoe3lppqvr1hpan4aqdc8p2mjq5ls8f8@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:47:26 -0400, "HockeyinHD" <hidden.DeleteThis@home.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Chris" <noone.DeleteThis@goaway.com> wrote in message
>>news:9iaoe3lh02mg73o5htqd1sutrsvejp1i8j@4ax.com...
>>
>>Ny news server is intermittent (thanks Insight... tools) so if this has
>>already appeared, blame them I guess.
>>
>>>>> Take away Lidstrom and show me the difference.
>>>>
>>>>Does Detroit get to use his 7.6 mil to replace him?
>>>
>>> With what's left in the UFA pool? Sure, go right ahead.
>>
>>If we remove Lidstrom, and then
>>only give the Wings UFA scraps to replace him with (like Markov and
>>Sopel),
>>Colorado's D is comparable (I still think it's worse, but whatever, I'm
>>never going to be able to convince you or Tom of that).
>
> Not likely, no - not without Lidstrom. The Avs' defense has improved
> a nice chunk from what we had last year though, and that's a good
> thing.


San Jose let Hannen walk for a song. And you overpaid for him big time. Only
because your defence was in such a shambles you couldnt afford to let ANYONE
go. You thought he was top notch. Your in for a big suprise.



>
> I'm not happy about the Brett Clark $3Mper extension, but other than
> that, the Avs did some nice things this offseason.


LOL! Starting with what? Finally getting Breeze bye off the books. LOL!




I believe the two
> big questions we have going into the season are Budaj's play

You think huh?




and
> Leopold's health.



You mean the guy whose NEVER scored a playoff goal and has a total of ONE
full season under his belt???







Injuries aside, I think they're a 100+ point team.


In your dreams pipe dreamer! Better focus on the Easter Bunny around that
time of year. Your odds will be much better.







>
>>>>HD. (This is Eric, btw).
>>>
>>> Nice to speak with you again. How is everything?
>>
>>Oh, fine. Bored, mostly. Slow time of year business-wise (thanks, Big
>>Three... tools.). Pining for a decent pizza, which is not to be found in
>>the state of Indiana, as I've discovered.
>
> I've found it tough to find good pizza outside of the northeast US.
> You've got to find one of those NY Italian transplants who start a
> pizza shop and ship in the PollyO cheese and make the sauce right,
> etc. Hard to find, but there are a few out there.
>
> Overall, did the move to Indy work out OK?
>
> Chris
>
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:49:47 -0400, "HockeyinHD" <hidden DeleteThis @home.com>
wrote:

>
>"Chris" <noone DeleteThis @goaway.com> wrote in message
>news:gipoe3lppqvr1hpan4aqdc8p2mjq5ls8f8@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:47:26 -0400, "HockeyinHD" <hidden DeleteThis @home.com>
>> wrote:
>
>> Not likely, no - not without Lidstrom. The Avs' defense has improved
>> a nice chunk from what we had last year though, and that's a good
>> thing.
>
>I suppose I don't see it. As far as I can remember the Avs added Hannan and
>lost Klee and Vaaaananaaaanen, right?

If we're going to look at this through a magnifying glass, the Avs
replaced Klee wth Hannan, Brisebois with a-now-hopefully-healthy
Leopold, and Vaananen with Sauer.

>IMO Klee was your most dependable defender last year (as evidenced by a +18
>on a +11 team while doing nothing offensively himself).

Klee actually wasn't bad last year, though the intersting thing about
Klee is this: He played really well when the team did terribly, and
was downright middle of the road when the team was on fire at the end
of the year. What do you make of that?

> Vaaanannen was a
>3rd pairing guy, so I don't think he's terribly relevant.

One of those Dr. Jekyll players. Looked great one night, positively
ECHL-esque the next.

>Having watched Detroit have a surfeit of skilled defensemen, I suppose my
>bias in that regard makes me rather leery of a team with only 1.5 such
>players (Liles and Clark). Skrastins, Hannan, Leopold, Sauer and any of the
>other depth guys are really moderately bad puckmovers.

Well, Leopold is pretty good with the puck, though it's sometimes
tough to tell, given how frequently he's actually on the ice.

Good teams have a combination of both skilled and physical defenders.
Beauchemin is hardly a 'skilled defenseman', but he's certainly
valuable to the Ducks.

>> I'm not happy about the Brett Clark $3Mper extension, but other than
>> that, the Avs did some nice things this offseason. I believe the two
>> big questions we have going into the season are Budaj's play and
>> Leopold's health. Injuries aside, I think they're a 100+ point team.
>
>Well, you've got Keenan in your division so that ought to add 5-10 points to
>every other NW team right there. The Flames better get all their impending
>FAs signed before the second week of camp.

I think the Flames are the best team on paper, but it'll be
interesting to see how they respond to Keenan. I'm hoping you're
right.

>> Overall, did the move to Indy work out OK?
>
>Professionally it was great. Still is, albeit somewhat less so right now.
>Moving 300+ miles away from the whole family is sort of a drag, though.
>Plans are in the works for us to go back, but that's probably 6+ months out.
>Most of that hangs on a couple imponderables which may or may not fall into
>place. That, and whether I end up having the granite stones necessary to
>take a moderately gigantic professional leap of faith in a semi-start-up
>with a personal buy-in threatening mid 6 figures... which, for those keeping
>score at home, is pretty much a 'Degree All-In Moment."

I've been doing startups since the early 90s. Yes, it takes stones.
But, never boring... :-)

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

>> Not likely, no - not without Lidstrom. The Avs' defense has improved
>> a nice chunk from what we had last year though, and that's a good
>> thing.
>
>San Jose let Hannen walk for a song. And you overpaid for him big time. Only
>because your defence was in such a shambles you couldnt afford to let ANYONE
>go. You thought he was top notch. Your in for a big suprise.

You're = you are.

And I don't think so. Hannan is at least a very solid defender. The
Avs made a good pickup, and they didn't really overpay. He's in the
top set of defensive defensemen in the NHL.

And the Sharks knew they wanted to have a 1-2 center combination and
had to sign Thornton and Marleau, so they couldn't keep everyone.
There's nothing to read into in that respect, IMO.

>> I'm not happy about the Brett Clark $3Mper extension, but other than
>> that, the Avs did some nice things this offseason.
>
>LOL! Starting with what? Finally getting Breeze bye off the books. LOL!

Well, that is a good thing, don't you agree? The Avs lost Brisebois
and Klee and added Hannan and a now (hopefully) healthy Leopold. Can
you push your Wings' homerism aside for one moment and give an honest
assessment as to whether that made the team better?

They also added Smyth, a tough 30+ goal scorer. This for a team that
lacked some toughness. They'll bench Brett McLean instead. Is that
not an upgrade?

> I believe the two
>> big questions we have going into the season are Budaj's play
>
>You think huh?

I do. There are a lot of Avs fans who believe that his solid play
down the stretch with "automatically" continue. I'm not convinced
that it will. It very well may and that'd be great, but in my mind,
it's a big question mark going into this season. The biggest question
mark, in fact.

> and
>> Leopold's health.

>You mean the guy whose NEVER scored a playoff goal

You mean ONE less than Lebda, Lilja, and Kronwall combined?

>and has a total of ONE
>full season under his belt???

Huh? 229 gp?

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Chris" <noone.TakeThisOut@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:enipe3tticso7dnvkoa35mr156lbaq3jtt@4ax.com...
>
>>> Not likely, no - not without Lidstrom. The Avs' defense has improved
>>> a nice chunk from what we had last year though, and that's a good
>>> thing.
>>
>>San Jose let Hannen walk for a song. And you overpaid for him big time.
>>Only
>>because your defence was in such a shambles you couldnt afford to let
>>ANYONE
>>go. You thought he was top notch. Your in for a big suprise.
>
> You're = you are.
>
> And I don't think so. Hannan is at least a very solid defender. The
> Avs made a good pickup, and they didn't really overpay. He's in the
> top set of defensive defensemen in the NHL.
>
> And the Sharks knew they wanted to have a 1-2 center combination and
> had to sign Thornton and Marleau, so they couldn't keep everyone.
> There's nothing to read into in that respect, IMO.
>
>>> I'm not happy about the Brett Clark $3Mper extension, but other than
>>> that, the Avs did some nice things this offseason.
>>
>>LOL! Starting with what? Finally getting Breeze bye off the books. LOL!
>
> Well, that is a good thing, don't you agree?

Sure.

The Avs lost Brisebois
> and Klee and added Hannan and a now (hopefully) healthy Leopold.

He's the key. And the difference between him and Kronwall being injury prone
is how important they are to their teams. The Avs needed Leopold to help
them make the playoffs. Where as good as Kronwall is/can be....the team is
gonna be good either way.


Can
> you push your Wings' homerism aside for one moment and give an honest
> assessment as to whether that made the team better?

If Leopold's healthy yes. But thats a big if.


>
> They also added Smyth, a tough 30+ goal scorer. This for a team that
> lacked some toughness. They'll bench Brett McLean instead. Is that
> not an upgrade?


sure. Is it enough. I'm not sure. Your team had a strange season last year.
They played their selves out of a playoff position early on and then made a
great run with some guys I dont even believe the Avs were expecting to play
so well. I mean who forcast Stastny would have the season he had. Or Svatos
would dip like he did for that part. But that and that nice run late in the
season all happened under the radar. They looked dead in the water and then
made that run. Their goaltending looked a wreck. Did a lot of teams
underestimate them along with the suprising emergence Budaj and Stastny. I
think so.


>
>> I believe the two
>>> big questions we have going into the season are Budaj's play
>>
>>You think huh?
>
> I do. There are a lot of Avs fans who believe that his solid play
> down the stretch with "automatically" continue. I'm not convinced
> that it will. It very well may and that'd be great, but in my mind,
> it's a big question mark going into this season. The biggest question
> mark, in fact.
>
>> and
>>> Leopold's health.
>
>>You mean the guy whose NEVER scored a playoff goal
>
> You mean ONE less than Lebda, Lilja, and Kronwall combined?


Please Chris. Those 3 were never counted on and traded for Tanguay. That
trade alone was huge to your playoff chances.


>
>>and has a total of ONE
>>full season under his belt???
>
> Huh? 229 gp?


He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any team
playing parts of some seasons?
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

>>>LOL! Starting with what? Finally getting Breeze bye off the books. LOL!
>>
>> Well, that is a good thing, don't you agree?
>
>Sure.
>
> The Avs lost Brisebois
>> and Klee and added Hannan and a now (hopefully) healthy Leopold.
>
>He's the key. And the difference between him and Kronwall being injury prone
>is how important they are to their teams.

I agree.

> Can
>> you push your Wings' homerism aside for one moment and give an honest
>> assessment as to whether that made the team better?
>
>If Leopold's healthy yes. But thats a big if.

It'll hurt us if he's not available again, that's for sure.

>>
>> They also added Smyth, a tough 30+ goal scorer. This for a team that
>> lacked some toughness. They'll bench Brett McLean instead. Is that
>> not an upgrade?
>
>sure.

Well there you go Three 'sures' in one post concerning the Avs
improving themselves.

>Is it enough. I'm not sure.

I'm not either, but I'm fairly sure the team will do better, injuries
aside. I don't think anyone got appreciably better in the NW this
offseason aside from the Avs. Edmonton perhaps, but they had the
farthest to go. Minnesota did nothing. Vancouver didn't do much
either. Calgary made a lot of changes, but I don't think they're
necessarily better. The Avs got better.

>Your team had a strange season last year.
>They played their selves out of a playoff position early on and then made a
>great run with some guys I dont even believe the Avs were expecting to play
>so well. I mean who forcast Stastny would have the season he had. Or Svatos
>would dip like he did for that part. But that and that nice run late in the
>season all happened under the radar. They looked dead in the water and then
>made that run. Their goaltending looked a wreck. Did a lot of teams
>underestimate them along with the suprising emergence Budaj and Stastny. I
>think so.

Stastny was money from game 1 to game 82. Guy's a player. Budaj is
the key this year.

>>>You mean the guy whose NEVER scored a playoff goal
>>
>> You mean ONE less than Lebda, Lilja, and Kronwall combined?
>
>
>Please Chris. Those 3 were never counted on and traded for Tanguay. That
>trade alone was huge to your playoff chances.

You didn't say anything about the Tanguay trade. You referenced how
many playoff goals the man has scored.

>
>>
>>>and has a total of ONE
>>>full season under his belt???
>>
>> Huh? 229 gp?
>
>He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any team
>playing parts of some seasons?

Oh, I see. You are referring to his relative health. I read that as
referring to his possible inexperience. My bad.

In any case, he's played 82 games once and 74 games another time.
Those are 'full seasons'. But, you are correct. His injury history
is a concern. And in fact, the big concern is the concussions, not
what he had last year.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Bushay" <bushay44.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mNednfORofK4m3DbnZ2dnUVZ_qGknZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Chris" <noone.TakeThisOut@goaway.com> wrote in message
> news:enipe3tticso7dnvkoa35mr156lbaq3jtt@4ax.com...
>> You mean ONE less than Lebda, Lilja, and Kronwall combined?
>
>
> Please Chris. Those 3 were never counted on and traded for Tanguay. That
> trade alone was huge to your playoff chances.

What are you saying here? That trading Tanguay cost a playoff spot or that
Leopold
misisng most of the season did?



>and has a total of ONE
>>>full season under his belt???
>>
>> Huh? 229 gp?
>
>
> He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any team
> playing parts of some seasons?

How many 82 game seasons has Kronwall played?
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

>> He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any team
>> playing parts of some seasons?
>
>How many 82 game seasons has Kronwall played?

If we're going to be silly and only have the number 82 reference a
complete season, then we should note that Chris Chelios - in 23 years
of professional hockey - has only done this once. Just like Leopold.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Freedom Elz" <kred.DeleteThis@tifle.net> wrote in message
news:dDbHi.660$372.659@read2.cgocable.net...
>
> "Bushay" <bushay44.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mNednfORofK4m3DbnZ2dnUVZ_qGknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Chris" <noone.DeleteThis@goaway.com> wrote in message
>> news:enipe3tticso7dnvkoa35mr156lbaq3jtt@4ax.com...
>>> You mean ONE less than Lebda, Lilja, and Kronwall combined?
>>
>>
>> Please Chris. Those 3 were never counted on and traded for Tanguay. That
>> trade alone was huge to your playoff chances.
>
> What are you saying here? That trading Tanguay cost a playoff spot or that
> Leopold
> misisng most of the season did?


LOL. you figure it out!



>
>
>
>>and has a total of ONE
>>>>full season under his belt???
>>>
>>> Huh? 229 gp?
>>
>>
>> He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any
>> team playing parts of some seasons?
>
> How many 82 game seasons has Kronwall played?


Hey dick breathe, were talking about Leopold here. Not Kronwall. Kronwall
wasnt traded for Leopold. Tanguay was. Kronwall isnt counted on to anchor
our defence. Leopold was. He failed. Miserbly
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Chris" <noone.TakeThisOut@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:rfjqe3lde6is1bap0a2e1vd97off6u4pkh@4ax.com...
>
>>> He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any
>>> team
>>> playing parts of some seasons?
>>
>>How many 82 game seasons has Kronwall played?
>
> If we're going to be silly and only have the number 82 reference a
> complete season, then we should note that Chris Chelios - in 23 years
> of professional hockey - has only done this once. Just like Leopold.
>
> Chris
>


Oh please. Chelios is going to the Hall. Leopold will need a ticket.
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

"Bushay" <bushay44.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XvCdnRhcp7el5XDbnZ2dnUVZ_q2hnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Freedom Elz" <kred.RemoveThis@tifle.net> wrote in message
> news:dDbHi.660$372.659@read2.cgocable.net...
>>
>> "Bushay" <bushay44.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:mNednfORofK4m3DbnZ2dnUVZ_qGknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Chris" <noone.RemoveThis@goaway.com> wrote in message
>>> news:enipe3tticso7dnvkoa35mr156lbaq3jtt@4ax.com...
>>>> You mean ONE less than Lebda, Lilja, and Kronwall combined?
>>>
>>>
>>> Please Chris. Those 3 were never counted on and traded for Tanguay. That
>>> trade alone was huge to your playoff chances.
>>
>> What are you saying here? That trading Tanguay cost a playoff spot or
>> that Leopold
>> misisng most of the season did?
>
>
> LOL. you figure it out!

In other words you don't know yourself.



>>>and has a total of ONE
>>>>>full season under his belt???
>>>>
>>>> Huh? 229 gp?
>>>
>>>
>>> He's only played one 82 game season Chris. How much help is he to any
>>> team playing parts of some seasons?
>>
>> How many 82 game seasons has Kronwall played?
>
>
> Hey dick breathe, were talking about Leopold here. Not Kronwall. Kronwall
> wasnt traded for Leopold. Tanguay was.

And Tanguay isn't a defenseman.


> Kronwall isnt counted on to anchor our defence.

According to homers such as yourself he's supposed to replace Lidstrom, at
this point
he couldn't even replace Markov.


>Leopold was.


No he wasn't.
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel? 

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:18:19 -0400, "Freedom Elz" <kred DeleteThis @tifle.net>
wrote:
<snip>

>>> What are you saying here? That trading Tanguay cost a playoff spot or
>>> that Leopold
>>> misisng most of the season did?
>>
>>
>> LOL. you figure it out!
>
>In other words you don't know yourself.
>
In hindsight a reasonable argument could be made for that. Don't you
think Tanguay would have been worth an additional two points?
 >> Stay informed about: What's the deal with Sopel?