And the are in

<xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:sodfe3h5hei9qon78kqd4mrbjs18egu9fu@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:30:25 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:vb4de35fqim5gsoov7k7nbiii1uq7cqs2i@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:44:44 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>> I don't care how many
>>>>convoluted pseudo-stats or how much underhand backspin you guys can
>>>>produce,
>>>>the fact is very simple- Canada's domination of hockey is, if anything,
>>>>stronger today than it's ever been. In the NHL, all the best hockey
>>>>players
>>>>in the world are tossed into a bag, shaken up and dumped onto the ice.
>>>>Canadian players are consistantly the best.
>>>>Ya know, given the abysmal recent record of Americans in international
>>>>competition lately, it's a little petulant, don't you think, for you to
>>>>be
>>>>kicking your heels into the ground and wailing that the guy who beat you
>>>>isn't nearly as good as he says he is.
>>>
>>> Ah, now you've bring the Americans into it. In case you aren't aware
>>> of it hockey is #4 in the USA at most. That simply means that most of
>>> the best athletes in USA don't play hockey.
>>
>>Oh yeah, Baseball is Americas Pastime. Okay, let's take a look...
>>Well, an American team wins every World Series but it's only called that
>>because the tournament was originally sponsored by the 'New York World'
>>newspaper, right? So there hasn't been real international competition
>>until
>>the first Baseball World Classic. If I recall right, the US lost their
>>first
>>game to Canada and got bounced in the second round- out of the medals.
>>Japan
>>won the gold over Cuba- a country of about 11 million people and zero
>>professional ballplayers. Sorry, no joy for ya here.
>>How about basketball? The last international tournament was the FIBA World
>>Championship in '06. A quick google shows the US took the bronze behind
>>Spain and Greece so that's a bit better- nothing to brag about but better
>>than empty hands.
>>Football? No-one else in the world plays NFL football barring that
>>development league in Europe (do they still play there?) so there's
>>nothing
>>to talk about there.
>
> Well there is a developmental league in Canada called CFL. I might be
> wrong but I don't believe they produce many NFLers.

The CFL is not a developmental league for the NFL, its older than the NFL
for
starters and it has different rules.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

>> Well there is a developmental league in Canada called CFL. I might be
>> wrong but I don't believe they produce many NFLers.
>
>The CFL is not a developmental league for the NFL, its older than the NFL
>for
>starters and it has different rules.
>
Yes I know. OTOH it's where some (Warren Moon, etc)
go for awhile to try and work their way to the NFL.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:46:28 -0400, pawn <pawn.DeleteThis@porthouse.com> wrote:
>
>> xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:44:44 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
>>> The only one's that are moving things are you two. First you Leaf
>>> buddy points to the top scorers using one year as if it was
>>> representative which clearly wasn't.
>> First, your entire argument hinges on a decline in Canadian talent, so I
>> think it's completely appropriate to show the latest numbers. Second,
>> how about we average the last 10 seasons?
>>
>> 2006-2007: 8 of top 10 Canadian
>> 2005-2006: 6 of 10
>> 2003-2004: 4 of 10
>> 2002-2003: 5 of 10
>> 2001-2002: 5 of 10
>
> Oh now we are changing the standard again I see.

No, you had a problem with it just being the "latest" numbers, so I
tried to make you happy with the last 5 years. Pretty strange pattern
for a Country whose talent is supposedly on the downswing.


>> It was actually originally Canadian domination of Stanley Cup winners,
>> which nobody on their right mind would argue (although you did). Say,
>> why don't you post your European captain stats wrt Stanley Cup winners?
>> LOL!
> I did? Then you should have no problems coming up with the quotes with
> google ids. I'll be waiting but won't be holding my breathe,

You did what? In what twisted universe can any sentence in that
paragraph be responded to with "I did"?

>>> Ah, now you've bring the Americans into it. In case you aren't aware
>>> of it hockey is #4 in the USA at most. That simply means that most of
>>> the best athletes in USA don't play hockey.
>> U.S. population in states that have a significant hockey following
>> (there are probably more, but these can't be argued):
>>
>> Alaska 663,661
>> Colorado 4,665,177
>> Massachusetts 6,398,743
>> Michigan 10,120,860
>> Minnesota 5,132,799
>> New York 19,254,630
>> Pennsylvania 12,429,616
>> --------------------------
>> Total: 58.9M
>>
>> Canada's entire population, assuming we all fit the stereotype you
>> probably assume: 33M
>
> So now you bringing Americans into the discussion to boost your ego.

I didn't bring it in, I responded to your sentence above. HTH.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:48:32 -0400, pawn <pawn.RemoveThis@porthouse.com> wrote:
>
>> xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:30:23 -0400, "Bushay" <bushay44.RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> World Championships
>>>>> Men- Canada- gold- undefeated in tournament
>>>>> Women-Canada- gold- undefeated in tournament
>>>>> Juniors-Canada-gold-undefeated in tournament
>>>>>
>>>>> Uh, maybe you mean the goal differential has been slipping?
>>>> You seem to continue to talk about Women and Childrens hockey while were
>>>> referring to the NHL. To which your ,again, clearly losing your grip.
>>>>
>>> Yes they certainly keep on grasping at straws.
>> Children? You don't think our recent domination at the World Junior
>> level is a significant indicator of Canada's present and foreseeable
>> domination of hockey? Have you ever watched a World Junior tournament?
>> It's a who's who of future NHLers.
>>
> You are so screwed up you don't even know who are replying to anymore.

Uh...you might want to clean up your borderline criminally insane
out-of-order posting style before throwing rocks. Either way, *you*
backed up Bushay's argument about bringing children into the discussion.
I have every right and cause to respond to you.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:29:25 -0400, pawn <pawn.DeleteThis@porthouse.com> wrote:
>>>>> Without checking your numbers, this means even in the stat you finally
>>>>> found to back your argument, 44% of the league's top scorers are Canadian.
>>> That's right.
>> Weird how the rest of that paragraph got omitted.
> If it is weird you need to ask yourself why it was already edited
> out.

I already know why, Mr. Selective Argument.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

Freedom Elz wrote:
> <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:sodfe3h5hei9qon78kqd4mrbjs18egu9fu@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:30:25 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:vb4de35fqim5gsoov7k7nbiii1uq7cqs2i@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:44:44 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>> I don't care how many
>>>>> convoluted pseudo-stats or how much underhand backspin you guys can
>>>>> produce,
>>>>> the fact is very simple- Canada's domination of hockey is, if anything,
>>>>> stronger today than it's ever been. In the NHL, all the best hockey
>>>>> players
>>>>> in the world are tossed into a bag, shaken up and dumped onto the ice.
>>>>> Canadian players are consistantly the best.
>>>>> Ya know, given the abysmal recent record of Americans in international
>>>>> competition lately, it's a little petulant, don't you think, for you to
>>>>> be
>>>>> kicking your heels into the ground and wailing that the guy who beat you
>>>>> isn't nearly as good as he says he is.
>>>> Ah, now you've bring the Americans into it. In case you aren't aware
>>>> of it hockey is #4 in the USA at most. That simply means that most of
>>>> the best athletes in USA don't play hockey.
>>> Oh yeah, Baseball is Americas Pastime. Okay, let's take a look...
>>> Well, an American team wins every World Series but it's only called that
>>> because the tournament was originally sponsored by the 'New York World'
>>> newspaper, right? So there hasn't been real international competition
>>> until
>>> the first Baseball World Classic. If I recall right, the US lost their
>>> first
>>> game to Canada and got bounced in the second round- out of the medals.
>>> Japan
>>> won the gold over Cuba- a country of about 11 million people and zero
>>> professional ballplayers. Sorry, no joy for ya here.
>>> How about basketball? The last international tournament was the FIBA World
>>> Championship in '06. A quick google shows the US took the bronze behind
>>> Spain and Greece so that's a bit better- nothing to brag about but better
>>> than empty hands.
>>> Football? No-one else in the world plays NFL football barring that
>>> development league in Europe (do they still play there?) so there's
>>> nothing
>>> to talk about there.
>> Well there is a developmental league in Canada called CFL. I might be
>> wrong but I don't believe they produce many NFLers.
>
> The CFL is not a developmental league for the NFL,

Right. The players in the CFL aren't good enough for it to be a
developmental league for the NFL. The CFL is a poor man's NFL Europe.

> its older than the NFL
> for
> starters

Nope. The NFL was founded in 1922. The CFL was founded in 1958.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

"Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
news:g_mdnU2kqru7_3XbnZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
> Freedom Elz wrote:
>> <xpenenyx.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:sodfe3h5hei9qon78kqd4mrbjs18egu9fu@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:30:25 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <xpenenyx.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:vb4de35fqim5gsoov7k7nbiii1uq7cqs2i@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:44:44 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't care how many
>>>>>> convoluted pseudo-stats or how much underhand backspin you guys can
>>>>>> produce,
>>>>>> the fact is very simple- Canada's domination of hockey is, if
>>>>>> anything,
>>>>>> stronger today than it's ever been. In the NHL, all the best hockey
>>>>>> players
>>>>>> in the world are tossed into a bag, shaken up and dumped onto the
>>>>>> ice.
>>>>>> Canadian players are consistantly the best.
>>>>>> Ya know, given the abysmal recent record of Americans in
>>>>>> international
>>>>>> competition lately, it's a little petulant, don't you think, for you
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> kicking your heels into the ground and wailing that the guy who beat
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> isn't nearly as good as he says he is.
>>>>> Ah, now you've bring the Americans into it. In case you aren't aware
>>>>> of it hockey is #4 in the USA at most. That simply means that most of
>>>>> the best athletes in USA don't play hockey.
>>>> Oh yeah, Baseball is Americas Pastime. Okay, let's take a look...
>>>> Well, an American team wins every World Series but it's only called
>>>> that
>>>> because the tournament was originally sponsored by the 'New York World'
>>>> newspaper, right? So there hasn't been real international competition
>>>> until
>>>> the first Baseball World Classic. If I recall right, the US lost their
>>>> first
>>>> game to Canada and got bounced in the second round- out of the medals.
>>>> Japan
>>>> won the gold over Cuba- a country of about 11 million people and zero
>>>> professional ballplayers. Sorry, no joy for ya here.
>>>> How about basketball? The last international tournament was the FIBA
>>>> World
>>>> Championship in '06. A quick google shows the US took the bronze behind
>>>> Spain and Greece so that's a bit better- nothing to brag about but
>>>> better
>>>> than empty hands.
>>>> Football? No-one else in the world plays NFL football barring that
>>>> development league in Europe (do they still play there?) so there's
>>>> nothing
>>>> to talk about there.
>>> Well there is a developmental league in Canada called CFL. I might be
>>> wrong but I don't believe they produce many NFLers.
>>
>> The CFL is not a developmental league for the NFL,
>
> Right. The players in the CFL aren't good enough for it to be a
> developmental league for the NFL. The CFL is a poor man's NFL Europe.
>
>> its older than the NFL for
>> starters
>
> Nope. The NFL was founded in 1922. The CFL was founded in 1958.
>
> -Thomas

Yer right. He was probably refering to the Grey Cup, which was donated in
1909. Until 1958 there was a variety of organizations that competed between
them for the Grey Cup.
Apropos of nothing, George Hallas once commented that the Canadian game was
superior. He liked the big field- a CFL field is 65 yards wide and 150 yards
long. Even with the larger teams in Canada, it makes for a much more
wide-open game.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

Grande Mal wrote:
> "Thomas" <noneman.RemoveThis@none.man> wrote in message
> news:g_mdnU2kqru7_3XbnZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>> Freedom Elz wrote:
>>> <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:sodfe3h5hei9qon78kqd4mrbjs18egu9fu@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:30:25 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:vb4de35fqim5gsoov7k7nbiii1uq7cqs2i@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:44:44 GMT, "Grande Mal" <ironwrkr.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't care how many
>>>>>>> convoluted pseudo-stats or how much underhand backspin you guys can
>>>>>>> produce,
>>>>>>> the fact is very simple- Canada's domination of hockey is, if
>>>>>>> anything,
>>>>>>> stronger today than it's ever been. In the NHL, all the best hockey
>>>>>>> players
>>>>>>> in the world are tossed into a bag, shaken up and dumped onto the
>>>>>>> ice.
>>>>>>> Canadian players are consistantly the best.
>>>>>>> Ya know, given the abysmal recent record of Americans in
>>>>>>> international
>>>>>>> competition lately, it's a little petulant, don't you think, for you
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> kicking your heels into the ground and wailing that the guy who beat
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> isn't nearly as good as he says he is.
>>>>>> Ah, now you've bring the Americans into it. In case you aren't aware
>>>>>> of it hockey is #4 in the USA at most. That simply means that most of
>>>>>> the best athletes in USA don't play hockey.
>>>>> Oh yeah, Baseball is Americas Pastime. Okay, let's take a look...
>>>>> Well, an American team wins every World Series but it's only called
>>>>> that
>>>>> because the tournament was originally sponsored by the 'New York World'
>>>>> newspaper, right? So there hasn't been real international competition
>>>>> until
>>>>> the first Baseball World Classic. If I recall right, the US lost their
>>>>> first
>>>>> game to Canada and got bounced in the second round- out of the medals.
>>>>> Japan
>>>>> won the gold over Cuba- a country of about 11 million people and zero
>>>>> professional ballplayers. Sorry, no joy for ya here.
>>>>> How about basketball? The last international tournament was the FIBA
>>>>> World
>>>>> Championship in '06. A quick google shows the US took the bronze behind
>>>>> Spain and Greece so that's a bit better- nothing to brag about but
>>>>> better
>>>>> than empty hands.
>>>>> Football? No-one else in the world plays NFL football barring that
>>>>> development league in Europe (do they still play there?) so there's
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> to talk about there.
>>>> Well there is a developmental league in Canada called CFL. I might be
>>>> wrong but I don't believe they produce many NFLers.
>>> The CFL is not a developmental league for the NFL,
>> Right. The players in the CFL aren't good enough for it to be a
>> developmental league for the NFL. The CFL is a poor man's NFL Europe.
>>
>>> its older than the NFL for
>>> starters
>> Nope. The NFL was founded in 1922. The CFL was founded in 1958.
>>
>> -Thomas
>
> Yer right. He was probably refering to the Grey Cup, which was donated in
> 1909. Until 1958 there was a variety of organizations that competed between
> them for the Grey Cup.
> Apropos of nothing, George Hallas once commented that the Canadian game was
> superior. He liked the big field- a CFL field is 65 yards wide and 150 yards
> long. Even with the larger teams in Canada, it makes for a much more
> wide-open game.

It's entertaining, I will give it that. There are some things that I
like better about the CFL than the NFL. I have watched the CFL for a
long time. Hell, I have a Pinball Clemons Argos jersey in my closet.
Used to watch them on CBC all the time.

I love the 25yd deep end zone. I think that might make the NFL more
interesting, but they'd never go for that. It'd put the end zone seats
waaaaaay too far from the field.

I don't see a purpose for the larger ball or the 3 downs instead of
four. It always seemed like way too many scoring drives were cut short
because of some fluke circumstance.

I always liked the forward motion before the snap, but I think that if
the NFL ever implemented that, it would be exploited to the point where
it would have to be removed from the game. Too much innovation in the
NFL for that to work.

12 players per team is interesting. That said, it doesn't improve the
game. It gives the QB an extra option on offense, but QBs have a hard
enough time with their progressions now. That extra WR wouldn't serve
any purpose, really.

The CFL is an irrelevant league, but it is fun to watch.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

Grande Mal wrote:
> Well, an American team wins every World Series but it's only called that
> because the tournament was originally sponsored by the 'New York World'
> newspaper, right?

Well, this retarded thread isn't a total waste of time....I never knew
this little nugget. Thanks.

--
TomE.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

On Sep 12, 10:47 am, xpene... RemoveThis @earthlink.net wrote:
> >> Well there is a developmental league in Canada called CFL. I might be
> >> wrong but I don't believe they produce many NFLers.
>
> >The CFL is not a developmental league for the NFL, its older than the NFL
> >for
> >starters and it has different rules.
>
> Yes I know. OTOH it's where some (Warren Moon, etc)
> go for awhile to try and work their way to the NFL.

And Joe Theisman, Rockey Ismail, Jeff Garcia. Some NFLers come up
liek Ricky Williams and totally bomb as well. Its a different game.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

"Thomas" <noneman DeleteThis @none.man> wrote in message
news:IcGdnWfAi8XIanXbnZ2dnUVZ_quhnZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
> Grande Mal wrote:
>>>>
>> Yer right. He was probably refering to the Grey Cup, which was donated in
>> 1909. Until 1958 there was a variety of organizations that competed
>> between them for the Grey Cup.
>> Apropos of nothing, George Hallas once commented that the Canadian game
>> was superior. He liked the big field- a CFL field is 65 yards wide and
>> 150 yards long. Even with the larger teams in Canada, it makes for a much
>> more wide-open game.
>
> It's entertaining, I will give it that. There are some things that I like
> better about the CFL than the NFL. I have watched the CFL for a long time.
> Hell, I have a Pinball Clemons Argos jersey in my closet. Used to watch
> them on CBC all the time.
>
> I love the 25yd deep end zone. I think that might make the NFL more
> interesting, but they'd never go for that. It'd put the end zone seats
> waaaaaay too far from the field.

Actually, the end zone is 20 yards. There's 110 yards between the goal
lines. I once read a quote from an American player who said. "I knew I was
in a different league when I crossed the 50-yard-line twice on one run!"
That deeper end zone gives you a few more options when you're inside the
ten.

> I don't see a purpose for the larger ball or the 3 downs instead of four.
> It always seemed like way too many scoring drives were cut short because
> of some fluke circumstance.

The larger ball is, obviously, leftover from rugby. Ever see a rugby ball?
The CFL just didn't go as far as the NFL when they made the ball smaller so
it would be easier to throw.

> I always liked the forward motion before the snap, but I think that if the
> NFL ever implemented that, it would be exploited to the point where it
> would have to be removed from the game. Too much innovation in the NFL for
> that to work.

Well, that'd be because of the superior intelligence in the NFL.


> 12 players per team is interesting. That said, it doesn't improve the
> game. It gives the QB an extra option on offense, but QBs have a hard
> enough time with their progressions now. That extra WR wouldn't serve any
> purpose, really.

Actually, it's an extra tight end. There's only one in the NFL but in the
CFL there's one at each end of the line. Normally, I mean, obviously there's
different line-up options used in different circs.


> The CFL is an irrelevant league, but it is fun to watch.

So it's not enough that sports be entertaining, now you want them to be
relevant? Relevant to what? As in, the NFL is relevant to the DEA or the
SPCA?
It's just a game, Thomas.

> -Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

"Tom" <snowybunting.RemoveThis@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:13einetcu3m1o7d@corp.supernews.com...
> Grande Mal wrote:
>> Well, an American team wins every World Series but it's only called that
>> because the tournament was originally sponsored by the 'New York World'
>> newspaper, right?
>
> Well, this retarded thread isn't a total waste of time....I never knew
> this little nugget. Thanks.
>
> --
> TomE.

De nada.
I'm not sure that it's true, though.
 >> Stay informed about: And the are in 

"Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
news:QuKdnbmO8ezIM3TbnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
> Freedom Elz wrote:
>> >>
>>
>> Very interesting that the trend is shifting back to the CFL up here,
>> but not all that surprising as the Grey Cup is almost always a much
>> better game than the Super Bowl.
>
> That may very well be, but it's a game that only Canadians watch. Most of
> the rest of the football-watching world (the game is growing very very
> quickly in Japan and Australia) would rather see the game played at its
> highest level.
>
> But it is interesting that the CFL draws over 2m fans per year and has
> such a large number of viewers. I didn't know it was that popular up there
> until we started this discussion.
>
> Still, I would imagine that the reason Canadians follow the CFL over the
> NFL is nationalism, like everything else Canadian.
>
> -Thomas

Bwa, I say, bwa and ha ha.
You've never been outside of the US, have you? Or if you have, you obviously
weren't paying attention.
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