Pointing it out now, while I can...

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:25:49 -0600, Chris <noone.RemoveThis@goaway.com> wrote:

>>>I hate to bash you Chris, but you don't know a whole hell of a lot about
>>>hockey. You base your opinions on what you read and what the stats tell you.
>>
>>This is an instant classic. After, quite possibly, the most
>>unbelievable three-week run of posts running the gamut from ludicrous
>>to borderline insane, you're going to take shots at someone else's
>>hockey knowledge?
>>
>>Tom, honestly, just stop for a day or two. Really.
>>
>>All those people are not laughing WITH you.
>
>In other news, Datsyuk passed Vrbata in the 'scoring lead' last night.
>Vrbata must have been removed from the 1st line against Columbus,
>while Ovechkin and Crosby secretly donned Wings' uniforms and played
>alongside Datsyuk last night.

All of the Datsyuk/Vrbata sillyness aside, it looks like Babcock has
decided that one good scoring line is better than two marginal ones.
Nice to see Zetterberg off to a good start after his stretch of
invisibility to start last season.

>Thanks for taking out Calgary, by the way. We'll take all the help
>we can get.

Not to rub salt in old wounds, but if you guys could return the favor
some day, perhaps via a win over Nashville, that would be greatly
appreciated.
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

>>Thanks for taking out Calgary, by the way. We'll take all the help
>>we can get.
>
>Not to rub salt in old wounds, but if you guys could return the favor
>some day, perhaps via a win over Nashville, that would be greatly
>appreciated.

Nashville wasn't our biggest problem last year. Our lackluster
efforts against Chicago and St. Louis are the points missed that hurt,
that last loss against Nashville notwithstanding.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:41:10 -0600, Chris <noone DeleteThis @goaway.com> wrote:

>
>>>Thanks for taking out Calgary, by the way. We'll take all the help
>>>we can get.
>>
>>Not to rub salt in old wounds, but if you guys could return the favor
>>some day, perhaps via a win over Nashville, that would be greatly
>>appreciated.
>
>Nashville wasn't our biggest problem last year. Our lackluster
>efforts against Chicago and St. Louis are the points missed that hurt,
>that last loss against Nashville notwithstanding.

I have to think this is a make-or-break year for Q. Anything less
than the second round and he has to be out. With the additions on
defense, you guys have too much firepower up front to settle for
anything less; even if I'm not completely sold on your 'tending.

Maybe he just got a little too much credit in St. Louis. There were a
few years there, before Pleau nuked the roster, where next year was
supposed to be their year, and it never was.
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

WalkinDude wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:41:10 -0600, Chris <noone.DeleteThis@goaway.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Thanks for taking out Calgary, by the way. We'll take all the help
>>>> we can get.
>>> Not to rub salt in old wounds, but if you guys could return the favor
>>> some day, perhaps via a win over Nashville, that would be greatly
>>> appreciated.
>> Nashville wasn't our biggest problem last year. Our lackluster
>> efforts against Chicago and St. Louis are the points missed that hurt,
>> that last loss against Nashville notwithstanding.
>
> I have to think this is a make-or-break year for Q.

I would have thought the last two were make-or-break, but they weren't.

> Anything less
> than the second round and he has to be out. With the additions on
> defense, you guys have too much firepower up front to settle for
> anything less;

I've never seen you show the Avs any respect at all. I am relatively
speechless.

> even if I'm not completely sold on your 'tending.
>
> Maybe he just got a little too much credit in St. Louis.

Ya think?

> There were a
> few years there, before Pleau nuked the roster, where next year was
> supposed to be their year, and it never was.

And that has more to do with Quenneville than it does the players. The
guy is just awful.

It's frustrating how the Avs can do so many things right and then
completely shoot themselves in the foot on a couple things and end up
completely underachieving.

Then the Wings go out and do so many things wrong, and end up doing just
as well or better.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:57:50 -0400, Thomas <noneman.RemoveThis@none.man> wrote:

>WalkinDude wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:41:10 -0600, Chris <noone.RemoveThis@goaway.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Thanks for taking out Calgary, by the way. We'll take all the help
>>>>> we can get.
>>>> Not to rub salt in old wounds, but if you guys could return the favor
>>>> some day, perhaps via a win over Nashville, that would be greatly
>>>> appreciated.
>>> Nashville wasn't our biggest problem last year. Our lackluster
>>> efforts against Chicago and St. Louis are the points missed that hurt,
>>> that last loss against Nashville notwithstanding.
>>
>> I have to think this is a make-or-break year for Q.
>
>I would have thought the last two were make-or-break, but they weren't.

Yeesh. Who hired that guy anyway? Wasn't it the same guy who hired
Granato?

Hey, everybody has their Dave Lewis now and again. You just try not
to get them back-to-back.

>> Anything less
>> than the second round and he has to be out. With the additions on
>> defense, you guys have too much firepower up front to settle for
>> anything less;
>
>I've never seen you show the Avs any respect at all. I am relatively
>speechless.

I guess when I said Patrick Roy was one of the three best goalies of
all-time and that Peter Forsberg was the best player in the world, I
just wasn't showin' enough love.

People tend to see what they want to see.

>> There were a
>> few years there, before Pleau nuked the roster, where next year was
>> supposed to be their year, and it never was.
>
>And that has more to do with Quenneville than it does the players. The
>guy is just awful.
>
>It's frustrating how the Avs can do so many things right and then
>completely shoot themselves in the foot on a couple things and end up
>completely underachieving.

A couple things? This is the same team that used four straight first
round picks on Scott Parker, Mikhail Kuleshov, Vaclav Nedorost, and
Jonas Johansson.

They did so much right that they didn't qualify for the playoffs last
year. Let's try to temper this with just a little bit of reality,
huh?

Then again, you're apparently the only person on Earth who thinks the
Theodore deal was a good one, so I guess I have to take that into
consideration.

>Then the Wings go out and do so many things wrong, and end up doing just
>as well or better.

Since its inception, the Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom is one of the
top producing lines in the NHL.

That's a 6th, a 7th, and a 10th rounder for those scoring at home.
Apparently, they're doing something right.

By my quick calculations, and I have to head to work so they may be
off by one:

Colorado has 11 of its own draft picks on its current roster.
Detroit has 12 of its own draft picks on its current roster (not
counting Quincey, who's on IR).

Detroit did it a little better when they were relying heavily on FAs
and trades (3 Cups to 2), and they've done it better relying heavily
on draft picks (playoffs to not, so far).

Spin it any way you have to, but results do matter.
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

>By my quick calculations, and I have to head to work so they may be
>off by one:
>
>Colorado has 11 of its own draft picks on its current roster.
>Detroit has 12 of its own draft picks on its current roster (not
>counting Quincey, who's on IR).

Just for kicks: how many of said 11 and 12 are under 28 years of age?
Not trying to prove a point, just wondering...

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:09:19 -0600, Chris <noone.TakeThisOut@goaway.com> wrote:

>
>>By my quick calculations, and I have to head to work so they may be
>>off by one:
>>
>>Colorado has 11 of its own draft picks on its current roster.
>>Detroit has 12 of its own draft picks on its current roster (not
>>counting Quincey, who's on IR).
>
>Just for kicks: how many of said 11 and 12 are under 28 years of age?
>Not trying to prove a point, just wondering...

How bout we run with under 30 years of age, so no one accuses you of
purposely disqualifying Pavel Datsyuk? Plus, this way you'll get to
keep Parker on your list.

Under 30

Datsyuk - 30-goal, 60-assist-type guy. Finally showed up in the
playoffs last year.

Zetterberg - best forward on team. much better defensively than some
in here will ever admit

Franzen - I like him, but I'd like him a lot better on the third line.
decent size, great hustle, might turn himself into a 15-25-40 guy

Hudler - It's buy or die year for Jiri. 15 goals in very limited time
last year. Slooooowly getting better defensively, but 1 assist in 4
games does not a good start make.

Kopecky - does absolutely nothing for me. produced well in grand
rapids after some adjustment, but isn't exactly lighting it up in the
bigs

Kronwall - love the tenacity, like the defense, would love to see some
offense, but may well not happen - needs to add calcium to diet

Meech - Eh.

Filppula - love his work ethic and defensive game. doesn't finish
chances well enough. good 3rd liner.

30 and Over

Osgood - Aside from the '98 Cup and the blow-up doll...eh

Lidstrom - Will be remembered as one of the 5 greatest defensemen in
history (whether you like it or not, Elz).

Drake - I know he has heart, but....eh

Holmstrom - I don't care if Ryan Smyth's a better player (he is),
Holmstrom is still the best in the crease


Avalanche:

Under 30

Budaj - in his favor, he's decidedly better than the former Vezina
winner on the roster. then again, that Vezina winner is horrible.
his .903 save percentage over the last couple years won't set the
world on fire, but it's light years beyond Theodore

Sauer - probably wishes he hadn't been traded back from Anaheim, as he
saw the ice more often in California. decent defensive d-man who
somehow manages to bring less O to the table than even Chris Chelios
these days

Svatos - Still looking like a one-hit wonder. Tiny, plays no D,
scores 15 goals. He's Jiri Hudler with a little more IT.

Stastny - No early soph jinx for this wunderkind. Highly skilled and
more physical than i thought he'd be. can't argue with the bloodline

Wolski - Saw him play a bit with Brampton. Was an unholy terror his
last year in the OHL. Seen him play a bit with the Avs. Good NHL
player so far, but nothing like I thought he'd be. there's time.

Finger - The sooner this guy gets back to his AHL career, the better
for all involved.

Liles - Small, skilled, doesn't play great D. Pretty much the same
guy I saw at Michigan State. He's a Sparty, though, so ya gotta love
him.

Parker - don't get me started. the sooner this guy's back in
professional wrestling, the better for all involved.

Richardson - eh.

30 and Over

Hejduk - i really thought this guy was going to be a 100-point player.
still a highly skilled guy.

Sakic - Tied with Bryan Trottier as my second favorite #19.
1st-ballot guy.


So, it's 8/4 and 9/2, though I'd gander Detroit is only relying on
Holmstrom and Lidstrom to play key roles in the 30+ set.

Grigorenko will be up in November (he has to be, contractually, and
the club has already said he will be), likely taking Downey's or
Ellis' slot, which will make it 9/4.
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

>
>Under 30

For all intents and purposes an undrafted Lebda should be included.
>
>Datsyuk - 30-goal, 60-assist-type guy. Finally showed up in the
>playoffs last year.
>
>Zetterberg - best forward on team. much better defensively than some
>in here will ever admit
>
>Franzen - I like him, but I'd like him a lot better on the third line.
>decent size, great hustle, might turn himself into a 15-25-40 guy
>
>Hudler - It's buy or die year for Jiri. 15 goals in very limited time
>last year. Slooooowly getting better defensively, but 1 assist in 4
>games does not a good start make.
>
>Kopecky - does absolutely nothing for me. produced well in grand
>rapids after some adjustment, but isn't exactly lighting it up in the
>bigs
>
>Kronwall - love the tenacity, like the defense, would love to see some
>offense, but may well not happen - needs to add calcium to diet
>
>Meech - Eh.
>
>Filppula - love his work ethic and defensive game. doesn't finish
>chances well enough. good 3rd liner.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:48:46 -0400, xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:

>
>>
>>Under 30
>
>For all intents and purposes an undrafted Lebda should be included.

I didn't include undrafted FA's for either side. You can
occassionally find decent role players out of the undrafted pool, but
as a GM, if you didn't originally think the guy worth even a last
round pick, I don't want to give ya too much credit.
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can... 

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:44:40 -0600, Chris <noone.RemoveThis@goaway.com> wrote:

>>>>By my quick calculations, and I have to head to work so they may be
>>>>off by one:
>>>>
>>>>Colorado has 11 of its own draft picks on its current roster.
>>>>Detroit has 12 of its own draft picks on its current roster (not
>>>>counting Quincey, who's on IR).
>>>
>>>Just for kicks: how many of said 11 and 12 are under 28 years of age?
>>>Not trying to prove a point, just wondering...
>>
>>How bout we run with under 30 years of age, so no one accuses you of
>>purposely disqualifying Pavel Datsyuk?
>
>Actually, I was shooting for the UFA age as my cutoff - which I
>thought was sub-28. No cherry picking here - I rarely do that
>purposefully, as it doesn't help reveal the facts. 30 is fine though.
>I'm just trying to eliminate the guys drafted a long time ago, ala
>Lidstrom, Sakic, etc.

I know you wouldn't do that, Chris. I just wanted to avoid a cutoff
which barely excludes Detroit's second best forward. Look on the
bright side, moving it from 28 to 30 let Colorado keep Parker on the
list.

>>Finger - The sooner this guy gets back to his AHL career, the better
>>for all involved.
>
>The jury's still out, IMO. Can he be a decent 3rd pairing guy? He's
>looked good over the past 20+ games or so, but still - it's only 20
>games.

Sometimes these guys spring out of a near-decade-long stint in the
minors and have decent careers.

>>Richardson - eh.
>
>You underestimate him. Decent 3rd line player.

In my defense, I did give him a better review than Finger or Parker.
Okay, that's not much of a defense.

>>So, it's 8/4 and 9/2, though I'd gander Detroit is only relying on
>>Holmstrom and Lidstrom to play key roles in the 30+ set.
>
>OK, somewhat similar.
>
>Of Detroit's 8, we have two 1st line forwards, a 2nd pairing
>defensemen, 3 decent third line forwards, and 2 scrubs?
>
>Of Colorado's 9, we have one 1st line forward, one 2nd line forward,
>two 3rd line forwards (and I'm putting Svatos there, even though I
>think he'll be a 2nd line guy by season's end), a top offensive
>defenseman, a 2nd pairing defenseman, and a starting goaltender. 2
>scrubs.
>
>If we do it 25 and under, I'm going to guess that the Avs have a
>decided advantage. True?

True, though some of that has been mitigated by circumstance. Your
Budaj is our Jimmy Howard (though Howard doesn't have the NHL
experience, they were about on par as prospects). Our Howard is
sitting behind Dominik Hasek, while your starter flamed out,
necessitating a quicker run to the bigs.

On defense, the Wings have Kronwall (pick), who barely misses the cut,
and Lebda (undrafted FA) getting PT, and Quincey (IR) & Meech on the
roster, but they've also gone the veteran route with Lidstrom,
Rafalski, and Chelios.

Next year, we'll likely have Kindl on the big roster, but nobody's
going to knock Lidstrom, Rafalski, or Chelios off, so any new addition
via the draft would likely only knock off another draft pick.

At forward, your drafted guys on the roster are definitely younger,
thanks to guys like Stastny, Wolski, and Svatos & The Mysterians.
 >> Stay informed about: Pointing it out now, while I can...