First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson

"Hosmerica" <BigOneComing.TakeThisOut@IveGotGas.org> wrote in message
news:8dWdneBIKYkMAYLanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
> news:Neidnd8T6sz7HYLanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>> xpenenyx.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>> points than
>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>>
>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>> season.
>>
>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>>
>> -Thomas
>
> So why all the fuss over when Holmstrom scores? Stansy too for that
> matter? I don't think it matters whether he scores at ES or PP...a goal is
> a goal.
>

He is a wings hater so he spews nonsense or argumentation statements to try
to take the wings down a notch or 10 as it makes him feel better about being
an avs fan and himself....it is a long and boring story....
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

"Hockeyguy" <heymorons.DeleteThis@whatever.net> wrote in message
news:471faa31$0$9156$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com...
>
> "Hosmerica" <BigOneComing.DeleteThis@IveGotGas.org> wrote in message
> news:8dWdneBIKYkMAYLanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Thomas" <noneman.DeleteThis@none.man> wrote in message
>> news:Neidnd8T6sz7HYLanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>>> xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>>> points than
>>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>>> season.
>>>
>>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>>>
>>> -Thomas
>>
>> So why all the fuss over when Holmstrom scores? Stansy too for that
>> matter? I don't think it matters whether he scores at ES or PP...a goal
>> is a goal.
>>
>
> He is a wings hater so he spews nonsense or argumentation statements to
> try to take the wings down a notch or 10 as it makes him feel better about
> being an avs fan and himself....it is a long and boring story....

Freedom Elz and Chris too...is that right so far?
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

"Hosmerica" <BigOneComing RemoveThis @IveGotGas.org> wrote in message
news:3s2dnUkVG7jSMoLanZ2dnUVZ_sGvnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Hockeyguy" <heymorons RemoveThis @whatever.net> wrote in message
> news:471faa31$0$9156$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com...
>>
>> "Hosmerica" <BigOneComing RemoveThis @IveGotGas.org> wrote in message
>> news:8dWdneBIKYkMAYLanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Thomas" <noneman RemoveThis @none.man> wrote in message
>>> news:Neidnd8T6sz7HYLanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>>>> xpenenyx RemoveThis @earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>>>> points than
>>>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>>>> season.
>>>>
>>>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>>>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>>>>
>>>> -Thomas
>>>
>>> So why all the fuss over when Holmstrom scores? Stansy too for that
>>> matter? I don't think it matters whether he scores at ES or PP...a goal
>>> is a goal.
>>>
>>
>> He is a wings hater so he spews nonsense or argumentation statements to
>> try to take the wings down a notch or 10 as it makes him feel better
>> about being an avs fan and himself....it is a long and boring story....
>
> Freedom Elz and Chris too...is that right so far?
>
No, from my perspective - Chris is a pretty fair and even handed guy - just
a hockey fan who knows what he is talking about but happens to lean toward
Avs - but not a troll like thomas. Elz is a die hard fan from the day of
Quebec Nord - not really a wings basher unless poked. Thomas has a lot of
problems....
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

<xpenenyx.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:adguh3duf4cucfs8audbq7tq86bbv220u5@4ax.com...
>
>>Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>points than
>>Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>
>>So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>Holmstrom's.
>
> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
> season.

Why would you take them away? They didn't count?
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:42:03 -0400, xpenenyx RemoveThis @earthlink.net wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:44:38 -0600, Chris <noone RemoveThis @goaway.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:06:06 -0400, xpenenyx RemoveThis @earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>>points than
>>>>Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>>but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>>
>>>>So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>>Holmstrom's.
>>>
>>>Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>>a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>>that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>>season.
>>
>>About a point a game pace then?
>
>Yes. With total points being equal which would you rather have a
>player that gives you points every game or the player who gives you
>big points every fourth game?

Please show me a single NHL player who gave a point every game last
year. Or the year before. Or any year since Gretzky played in the
mid-1980s.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

Hosmerica wrote:
> "Thomas" <noneman RemoveThis @none.man> wrote in message
> news:Neidnd8T6sz7HYLanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>> xpenenyx RemoveThis @earthlink.net wrote:
>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>> points than
>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>> season.
>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>>
>> -Thomas
>
> So why all the fuss over when Holmstrom scores? Stansy too for that matter?
> I don't think it matters whether he scores at ES or PP...a goal is a goal.

It's easier to score or rack up points on the PP than it is to score
them at even strength.

Holmstrom has made a career out of scoring garbage PP goals, and nobody
is knocking him for that. But to even begin to think that he even
approaches being in the same ballpark in which there is a conversation
about Paul Stastny is patently absurd.

You don't see Avs fans going on and on about how great Brett Clark is.
He's the same thing as Holmstrom - a one-dimensional player who has
serious flaws to the rest of his game. They are both very good at what
they do in a certain situation, and they are relatively useless otherwise.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

xpenenyx DeleteThis @earthlink.net wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:29:03 -0400, Thomas <noneman DeleteThis @none.man> wrote:
>
>> xpenenyx DeleteThis @earthlink.net wrote:
>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>> points than
>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>> season.
>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>
> Except we aren't talking about Yzerman but Stastny. Nice try though.

No, we were talking about Holmstrom. *YOU* brought up Stastny. I brought
up Yzerman. My comparison is every bit as valid and relevant to the
conversation as yours.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:44:38 -0600, Chris <noone.DeleteThis@goaway.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:06:06 -0400, xpenenyx.DeleteThis@earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>> points than
>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>> season.
>> About a point a game pace then?
>
> Yes. With total points being equal which would you rather have a
> player that gives you points every game or the player who gives you
> big points every fourth game?

Total points aren't equal. Stastny has nearly twice as many this season
as Holmstrom does.

And even if the points were equal, I'd much rather have a young, quick,
moderately physical two-way forward who can play in any situation than a
relatively old, slow, defensively inept forward who can only play on the PP.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

Freedom Elz wrote:
> <xpenenyx RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:adguh3duf4cucfs8audbq7tq86bbv220u5@4ax.com...
>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>> points than
>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>> Holmstrom's.
>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>> season.
>
> Why would you take them away?

He's trying to come up with a way to make Holmstrom even remotely
similar to Stastny.

There is no comparison. We all know that.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

"Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
news:1LOdnavcuuJpQ4LanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
> Hosmerica wrote:
>> "Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
>> news:Neidnd8T6sz7HYLanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>>> xpenenyx.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>>> points than
>>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>>> season.
>>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>>>
>>> -Thomas
>>
>> So why all the fuss over when Holmstrom scores? Stansy too for that
>> matter? I don't think it matters whether he scores at ES or PP...a goal
>> is a goal.
>
> It's easier to score or rack up points on the PP than it is to score them
> at even strength.
>
> Holmstrom has made a career out of scoring garbage PP goals, and nobody is
> knocking him for that. But to even begin to think that he even approaches
> being in the same ballpark in which there is a conversation about Paul
> Stastny is patently absurd.
>
> You don't see Avs fans going on and on about how great Brett Clark is.
> He's the same thing as Holmstrom - a one-dimensional player who has
> serious flaws to the rest of his game. They are both very good at what
> they do in a certain situation, and they are relatively useless otherwise.
>
> -Thomas

With the level of talent Detroit has, I don't have any problems with having
Holmstrom grabbing up "garbage" goals however one-dimensional some say he
is. I'm not saying the wings are chucked full of talent and can't do any
better, but certainly there's room for a guy that gets in a goalies head as
bad as Holmstrom does. I would start Holmstrom over some of the other
yahoo's we've had over the years...Deveroux, Dandenault...
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:50:24 -0700, Freedom Elz
<mediadawg1.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> >> Then Wilson talked about Detroit's Tomas Holmstrom as a role model for what
>> >> he would like to see from his players.
>>
>> >> "He goes and stands in front of the net. And he gets punched and he gets
>> >> whacked by the goalie, he gets knocked on his keister and he fights back and
>> >> he maybe gets a penalty. The next shift, where's Tomas Holmstrom? Back in
>> >> front of the net. It might have taken him some time to get comfortable doing
>> >> that, but because of what the reward is, you have to do that.
>>
>> >> "That's what I want to see. When you do get punched in the head, or they
>> >> dump it in the corner and you get run on the very first shift of the game,
>> >> does it affect your second and your third and your fourth shifts?
>>
>> >> "Don't allow anybody's efforts to get you off your game. That's what we're
>> >> working on."
>>
>> >> Glen Hanlon said similar words earlier this week.
>>
>> >And Jacques Martin said this:
>>
>> >"He gets garbage goals,
>>
>> Do they count the same as pretty goals? If Martin cares about the
>> difference in style, he's an idiot. I get the feeling he doesn't
>> care.
>
>So then why are you getting defensive about it?

Did that sound defensive? I meant it to sound like a reply. I really
need to fix this damn usenet software.

>> >but useful on the power play."
>>
>> Nevermind that he had more even strength goals last year than all but
>> three Colorado forwards.
>
>How many this year?
>Or the year before last?
>Or the year before that?
>
>46% of his career goals have been scored on the PP
>
>Yeah, better to just overlook that. Moooooving on.....

Alright, we're going to do a simple math exercise here.

Just because Tomas Holmstrom scored 13 PP goals last year doesn't
negate the fact that he scored 17 ES goals.

Just because Tomas Holmstrom scored 11 PP goals the year before
doesn't negate the fact that he scored 18 ES goals.

17 ES goals. 18 ES goals. Pretty good ES production. In both years,
it would have put him right near the top of the Colorado roster.

I don't care if he scores 99% of his goals on the power play, if he
ALSO chips in 17 to 20 ES goals. The percentage of PP goals doesn't
change the fact that he's scoring more ES goals than most of
Colorado's roster.

Of course, the illustration above would put him at around 1,980 PP
goals per year, so that would be super.
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:27:20 -0400, Thomas <noneman DeleteThis @none.man> wrote:

>>>> Then Wilson talked about Detroit's Tomas Holmstrom as a role model for what
>>>> he would like to see from his players.
>>>>
>>>> "He goes and stands in front of the net. And he gets punched and he gets
>>>> whacked by the goalie, he gets knocked on his keister and he fights back and
>>>> he maybe gets a penalty. The next shift, where's Tomas Holmstrom? Back in
>>>> front of the net. It might have taken him some time to get comfortable doing
>>>> that, but because of what the reward is, you have to do that.
>>>>
>>>> "That's what I want to see. When you do get punched in the head, or they
>>>> dump it in the corner and you get run on the very first shift of the game,
>>>> does it affect your second and your third and your fourth shifts?
>>>>
>>>> "Don't allow anybody's efforts to get you off your game. That's what we're
>>>> working on."
>>>>
>>>> Glen Hanlon said similar words earlier this week.
>>> And Jacques Martin said this:
>>>
>>> "He gets garbage goals, not the most skilled guy in the league, but
>>> useful on the power play."
>>>
>>> Just add "ONLY" to the end of that sentence and you have truth.
>>>
>> Really? He had more even strength goals with 2 minutes less IT than
>> Stastny last year.
>
>Stastny was a rookie last year who wasn't supposed to make the team.
>Holmstrom was a ten-year vet.

Stastny wasn't supposed to make that team? In which alternate
universe?
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson 

Hosmerica wrote:
> "Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
> news:1LOdnavcuuJpQ4LanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>> Hosmerica wrote:
>>> "Thomas" <noneman.TakeThisOut@none.man> wrote in message
>>> news:Neidnd8T6sz7HYLanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>>>> xpenenyx.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>>> Good argument, nice to see that Holmstrom had more ES goals and less
>>>>>> points than
>>>>>> Stastny, who was a rookie at the time.
>>>>> but Holstrom is a scrub while Stastny is a God.
>>>>>> So far this year all of Stastny's goals have been at ES, only two of
>>>>>> Holmstrom's.
>>>>> Speaking of goals if you take away the early season game where he had
>>>>> a hat trick he has only two goals for the season. If you take away
>>>>> that game as well as the Calgary he only have 6 points for the
>>>>> season.
>>>> ...and if you take away Yzerman's points at even strength and on the
>>>> powerplay, he played 1514 games and scored less than 30 points.
>>>>
>>>> -Thomas
>>> So why all the fuss over when Holmstrom scores? Stansy too for that
>>> matter? I don't think it matters whether he scores at ES or PP...a goal
>>> is a goal.
>> It's easier to score or rack up points on the PP than it is to score them
>> at even strength.
>>
>> Holmstrom has made a career out of scoring garbage PP goals, and nobody is
>> knocking him for that. But to even begin to think that he even approaches
>> being in the same ballpark in which there is a conversation about Paul
>> Stastny is patently absurd.
>>
>> You don't see Avs fans going on and on about how great Brett Clark is.
>> He's the same thing as Holmstrom - a one-dimensional player who has
>> serious flaws to the rest of his game. They are both very good at what
>> they do in a certain situation, and they are relatively useless otherwise.
>>
>> -Thomas
>
> With the level of talent Detroit has, I don't have any problems with having
> Holmstrom grabbing up "garbage" goals however one-dimensional some say he
> is. I'm not saying the wings are chucked full of talent and can't do any
> better, but certainly there's room for a guy that gets in a goalies head as
> bad as Holmstrom does. I would start Holmstrom over some of the other
> yahoo's we've had over the years...Deveroux, Dandenault...

Well, yeah, without a doubt.

There seems to be no middle ground (other than myself) when it comes to
Holmstrom. People seem to either think he's complete garbage, or he's
Gordie Howe. I see him for what he is, a player who does only one thing,
but does it very well. There are very few guys in the NHL who do what
Holmstrom does, much less do it as well as he does. The people who think
he is garbage seem to think that anyone could do what he does. That's
not true.

But he's also not a scoring line forward. He can't skate, he isn't
physical (he takes contact, but doesn't dish it out), and he's awful
defensively.

He's a good specialist. But there is absolutely no comparison with Paul
Stastny.

Also, Dandenault never became the player he should have been because he
was utilized poorly early on. He was a fast, offensively gifted right
wing who had the potential to be a Brian Rolston-type of player (though
more of a playmaker than a goal scorer). Bowman turned him into a
defensive defenseman. Sad to see that happen, but at least he still has
a career.

-Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: First Hanlon, now Ron Wilson