lip service

On Nov 6, 11:34 am, Greg Lentz <nodamns... RemoveThis @speakeasy.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:58:47 -0000, "Mr. T" <ted.peder... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >These sorts of statements from DW don't seem to pack much punch:
>
> > -- * --
>
> >Talking before the game, Wilson indicated he continued to believe in
> >his team, though his disappointment was clear.
>
> >"It's certainly not where we expected to be," he said. "And it's not
> >where it's going to stay."
>
> >Wilson said he would remain patient - to a point.
>
> >"There's patience and there's avoidance," he said. "There won't be any
> >avoidance of issues. Things that have to get better will get better."
>
> >Wilson left open the possibility of a shake-up - "I always have said
> >I'll do anything to make this team better" - but he stressed that "the
> >focus right now is on what we have."
>
> >And does his patience extend to the coaching staff?
>
> >"That's certainly not the first place we'd look" for changes, he said.
> >"The coaches are working their tails off."
>
> > -- * --
>
> >My DW translator:
>
> >"I'll do whatever it takes to win. No one's job is safe, including
> >mine." ---> "Expect the status quo for the foreseeable future."
>
> Well, no one ever says the coaching staff is in trouble, until they get
> their pink slip.
> --
> Greg Lentz

Hmmm, I guess if Pollack was sort of pressing him on the issue, then
yeah he's just going to recite standard GM-speak.

OTOH, if DW is offering this stuff up on his own, I find it strange
that he's echoing his mantra after the playoff loss to the Wings. Like
you say, it's time to shut up or hand out pink slips.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On Nov 6, 1:17 pm, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:


> OTOH, if DW is offering this stuff up on his own, I find it strange
> that he's echoing his mantra after the playoff loss to the Wings. Like
> you say, it's time to shut up or hand out pink slips.

The weird part about all this is, even as inconsistent as the team has
been, they're in the top third of the league right now in points!
Makes me think the league in general is pretty inconsistent right now,
other than maybe Detroit and Carolina....

Mark
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On Nov 7, 4:33 am, itsmarkwag... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 6, 1:17 pm, "Mr. T" <ted.peder... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > OTOH, if DW is offering this stuff up on his own, I find it strange
> > that he's echoing his mantra after the playoff loss to the Wings. Like
> > you say, it's time to shut up or hand out pink slips.
>
> The weird part about all this is, even as inconsistent as the team has
> been, they're in the top third of the league right now in points!
> Makes me think the league in general is pretty inconsistent right now,
> other than maybe Detroit and Carolina....
>
> Mark

The problem is that these kinds of general statistics have little to
do with whether a team is a genuine contender or can just make itself
feel satisfied by saying it's better than "x" % of the competitition.
Similarly, there are 10 NFL teams that can say they're in the top
third, but unless they're playing like New England, Indianapolis,
Dallas or Pittsburgh, they're not really genuine contenders for all
the marbles. In the end, it takes superlative performance, and these
are delivered through both skill and intense desire. Right now, the
Sharks are lacking in both.

P.S. Don't forget Ottawa.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On Nov 6, 10:58 am, "Mr. T" <ted.peder... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> These sorts of statements from DW don't seem to pack much punch:
>
> -- * --
>
> Talking before the game, Wilson indicated he continued to believe in
> his team, though his disappointment was clear.
>
> "It's certainly not where we expected to be," he said. "And it's not
> where it's going to stay."
>
> Wilson said he would remain patient - to a point.
>
> "There's patience and there's avoidance," he said. "There won't be any
> avoidance of issues. Things that have to get better will get better."
>
> Wilson left open the possibility of a shake-up - "I always have said
> I'll do anything to make this team better" - but he stressed that "the
> focus right now is on what we have."
>
> And does his patience extend to the coaching staff?
>
> "That's certainly not the first place we'd look" for changes, he said.
> "The coaches are working their tails off."
>
> -- * --
>
> My DW translator:
>
> "I'll do whatever it takes to win. No one's job is safe, including
> mine." ---> "Expect the status quo for the foreseeable future."

This afternoon on KNBR with Ralph and Tom, Drew said the team is
inconsistent and doesn't work hard enough to consistently win. He
added there are players who don't show up prepared and, or don't put
out during games. Pretty damning comments. While I bow to Drew's
superior knowledge and everyone seems to think the Sharks are
immensely talented, I look at the defensemen and they look pretty
weak.
For years D Lomabardi drove me crazy with his signing old, has-
beens and D Sutter playing them instead of young, talented guys,
because they were gritty veterans who knew how to win. Now it looks as
though the Sharks could use a couple of gritty veterans who knew how
to win. Certainly the Sharks could use a couple players, particularly
forwards to give them a bit of a physical presence.
Another of Drew's criticisms was the Sharks don't have anyone who
likes to do the dirty work, go to the net, get hit, work in the
corners. All to often he said, the Sharks will look great on 90% of a
play, getting the puck, passing and skating up the ice, only to make a
fancy pass, take a long shot, or just fool around with the puck till
they lose it. But, no one goes to the net.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On Nov 7, 8:17 pm, Ebay Jim <louderthang....RemoveThis@astound.net> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 10:58 am, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > These sorts of statements from DW don't seem to pack much punch:
>
> > -- * --
>
> > Talking before the game, Wilson indicated he continued to believe in
> > his team, though his disappointment was clear.
>
> > "It's certainly not where we expected to be," he said. "And it's not
> > where it's going to stay."
>
> > Wilson said he would remain patient - to a point.
>
> > "There's patience and there's avoidance," he said. "There won't be any
> > avoidance of issues. Things that have to get better will get better."
>
> > Wilson left open the possibility of a shake-up - "I always have said
> > I'll do anything to make this team better" - but he stressed that "the
> > focus right now is on what we have."
>
> > And does his patience extend to the coaching staff?
>
> > "That's certainly not the first place we'd look" for changes, he said.
> > "The coaches are working their tails off."
>
> > -- * --
>
> > My DW translator:
>
> > "I'll do whatever it takes to win. No one's job is safe, including
> > mine." ---> "Expect the status quo for the foreseeable future."
>
> This afternoon on KNBR with Ralph and Tom, Drew said the team is
> inconsistent and doesn't work hard enough to consistently win. He
> added there are players who don't show up prepared and, or don't put
> out during games. Pretty damning comments. While I bow to Drew's
> superior knowledge and everyone seems to think the Sharks are
> immensely talented, I look at the defensemen and they look pretty
> weak.
> For years D Lomabardi drove me crazy with his signing old, has-
> beens and D Sutter playing them instead of young, talented guys,
> because they were gritty veterans who knew how to win. Now it looks as
> though the Sharks could use a couple of gritty veterans who knew how
> to win. Certainly the Sharks could use a couple players, particularly
> forwards to give them a bit of a physical presence.
> Another of Drew's criticisms was the Sharks don't have anyone who
> likes to do the dirty work, go to the net, get hit, work in the
> corners. All to often he said, the Sharks will look great on 90% of a
> play, getting the puck, passing and skating up the ice, only to make a
> fancy pass, take a long shot, or just fool around with the puck till
> they lose it. But, no one goes to the net.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I like that Drew's calling them straight. Good for him.

Good point about the offensive play.

However, the Sharks defensive play isn't where the problems lie. It's
almost entirely the weak offensive effort, and that includes even up,
power play and play from the points (at least that much is the
defense's participation). The Sharks have never had a single stud at
point in their entire existence, except Ozolinsh, in his early years,
and they promptly traded him so he could be a perpetual all-star
selection elsewhere (too late now).
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On Nov 7, 9:21 pm, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 5:17 pm, Ebay Jim <louderthang....DeleteThis@astound.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 6, 10:58 am, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > These sorts of statements from DW don't seem to pack much punch:
>
> > > -- * --
>
> > > Talking before the game, Wilson indicated he continued to believe in
> > > his team, though his disappointment was clear.
>
> > > "It's certainly not where we expected to be," he said. "And it's not
> > > where it's going to stay."
>
> > > Wilson said he would remain patient - to a point.
>
> > > "There's patience and there's avoidance," he said. "There won't be any
> > > avoidance of issues. Things that have to get better will get better."
>
> > > Wilson left open the possibility of a shake-up - "I always have said
> > > I'll do anything to make this team better" - but he stressed that "the
> > > focus right now is on what we have."
>
> > > And does his patience extend to the coaching staff?
>
> > > "That's certainly not the first place we'd look" for changes, he said.
> > > "The coaches are working their tails off."
>
> > > -- * --
>
> > > My DW translator:
>
> > > "I'll do whatever it takes to win. No one's job is safe, including
> > > mine." ---> "Expect the status quo for the foreseeable future."
>
> > This afternoon on KNBR with Ralph and Tom, Drew said the team is
> > inconsistent and doesn't work hard enough to consistently win. He
> > added there are players who don't show up prepared and, or don't put
> > out during games. Pretty damning comments. While I bow to Drew's
> > superior knowledge and everyone seems to think the Sharks are
> > immensely talented, I look at the defensemen and they look pretty
> > weak.
> > For years D Lomabardi drove me crazy with his signing old, has-
> > beens and D Sutter playing them instead of young, talented guys,
> > because they were gritty veterans who knew how to win. Now it looks as
> > though the Sharks could use a couple of gritty veterans who knew how
> > to win. Certainly the Sharks could use a couple players, particularly
> > forwards to give them a bit of a physical presence.
>
> They have accomplished a fair amount the past few years, so it's not
> like they never got leadership and production out of anyone. It's just
> that it's so inconsistent.
>
> Up front the leaders are strangely quiet for long periods of time.
>
> Well, Joe is consistent, but he's a setup guy.
>
> Cheech used to put his stamp on the majority of games he played in, by
> sheer will and determination if need be. The playoffs two years ago
> really seemed to take it out of him. He hasn't looked quite the same
> since.
>
> Clowe stepped up pretty big in the Nashville series. I thought he was
> on the cusp of really becoming a leader. He's been strangely silent.
> The Wings series took it out of him?
>
> Grier was bank. Maybe the most consistent guy last year. Even he
> hasn't looked quite the same thus far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Your observations are instructive, I believe.

When you can point to this guy, that guy and other guys and make the
same observation, namely that they just aren't revving up their games,
as before, I think that points to some common denominator other than
the physical or mental issues surrounding the players. One guy with a
problem, ok, maybe, it's just the guy, but a whole team sleepwalking?
That suggests overall motivation and discipline, i.e., leadership and
demanding coaching.

There's been a clear pattern established for three years, now, so we
shouldn't be sitting here baffled. RW just hasn't been able to build
a fire under these guys, and his idea for making them more responsive
to him is to gratuitously reward them with days off and vacations in
Banff. he just has no ability to put the hammer down; it's not in
him.

Personally, I don't think we see any significant alterative to this
apttern until we have a new coach. And, while we're at it, we need a
new captain, too.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On 2007-11-07 17:17:18 -0800, Ebay Jim <louderthangood.DeleteThis@astound.net> said:

> On Nov 6, 10:58 am, "Mr. T" <ted.peder....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> These sorts of statements from DW don't seem to pack much punch:
>>
>> -- * --
>>
>> Talking before the game, Wilson indicated he continued to believe in
>> his team, though his disappointment was clear.
>>
>> "It's certainly not where we expected to be," he said. "And it's not
>> where it's going to stay."
>>
>> Wilson said he would remain patient - to a point.
>>
>> "There's patience and there's avoidance," he said. "There won't be any
>> avoidance of issues. Things that have to get better will get better."
>>
>> Wilson left open the possibility of a shake-up - "I always have said
>> I'll do anything to make this team better" - but he stressed that "the
>> focus right now is on what we have."
>>
>> And does his patience extend to the coaching staff?
>>
>> "That's certainly not the first place we'd look" for changes, he said.
>> "The coaches are working their tails off."
>>
>> -- * --
>>
>> My DW translator:
>>
>> "I'll do whatever it takes to win. No one's job is safe, including
>> mine." ---> "Expect the status quo for the foreseeable future."
>
> This afternoon on KNBR with Ralph and Tom, Drew said the team is
> inconsistent and doesn't work hard enough to consistently win. He
> added there are players who don't show up prepared and, or don't put
> out during games. Pretty damning comments. While I bow to Drew's
> superior knowledge and everyone seems to think the Sharks are
> immensely talented, I look at the defensemen and they look pretty
> weak.
> For years D Lomabardi drove me crazy with his signing old, has-
> beens and D Sutter playing them instead of young, talented guys,
> because they were gritty veterans who knew how to win. Now it looks as
> though the Sharks could use a couple of gritty veterans who knew how
> to win. Certainly the Sharks could use a couple players, particularly
> forwards to give them a bit of a physical presence.
> Another of Drew's criticisms was the Sharks don't have anyone who
> likes to do the dirty work, go to the net, get hit, work in the
> corners. All to often he said, the Sharks will look great on 90% of a
> play, getting the puck, passing and skating up the ice, only to make a
> fancy pass, take a long shot, or just fool around with the puck till
> they lose it. But, no one goes to the net.

Glad to see that Drew is making the same observations that we have been
making here. I hope he passes them along to DW and we see some sort of
effort to remedy the situation fairly soon.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

On Nov 7, 5:17 pm, Ebay Jim <louderthang... RemoveThis @astound.net> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 10:58 am, "Mr. T" <ted.peder... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > These sorts of statements from DW don't seem to pack much punch:
>
> > -- * --
>
> > Talking before the game, Wilson indicated he continued to believe in
> > his team, though his disappointment was clear.
>
> > "It's certainly not where we expected to be," he said. "And it's not
> > where it's going to stay."
>
> > Wilson said he would remain patient - to a point.
>
> > "There's patience and there's avoidance," he said. "There won't be any
> > avoidance of issues. Things that have to get better will get better."
>
> > Wilson left open the possibility of a shake-up - "I always have said
> > I'll do anything to make this team better" - but he stressed that "the
> > focus right now is on what we have."
>
> > And does his patience extend to the coaching staff?
>
> > "That's certainly not the first place we'd look" for changes, he said.
> > "The coaches are working their tails off."
>
> > -- * --
>
> > My DW translator:
>
> > "I'll do whatever it takes to win. No one's job is safe, including
> > mine." ---> "Expect the status quo for the foreseeable future."
>
> This afternoon on KNBR with Ralph and Tom, Drew said the team is
> inconsistent and doesn't work hard enough to consistently win. He
> added there are players who don't show up prepared and, or don't put
> out during games. Pretty damning comments. While I bow to Drew's
> superior knowledge and everyone seems to think the Sharks are
> immensely talented, I look at the defensemen and they look pretty
> weak.
> For years D Lomabardi drove me crazy with his signing old, has-
> beens and D Sutter playing them instead of young, talented guys,
> because they were gritty veterans who knew how to win. Now it looks as
> though the Sharks could use a couple of gritty veterans who knew how
> to win. Certainly the Sharks could use a couple players, particularly
> forwards to give them a bit of a physical presence.

They have accomplished a fair amount the past few years, so it's not
like they never got leadership and production out of anyone. It's just
that it's so inconsistent.

Up front the leaders are strangely quiet for long periods of time.

Well, Joe is consistent, but he's a setup guy.

Cheech used to put his stamp on the majority of games he played in, by
sheer will and determination if need be. The playoffs two years ago
really seemed to take it out of him. He hasn't looked quite the same
since.

Clowe stepped up pretty big in the Nashville series. I thought he was
on the cusp of really becoming a leader. He's been strangely silent.
The Wings series took it out of him?

Grier was bank. Maybe the most consistent guy last year. Even he
hasn't looked quite the same thus far.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service 

I like RW in Anaheim, with Team USA in Canada Cup and thought he
got a raw deal in Washington. However, when a team with talent such as
the Sharks is consistently coming out flat with players under
performing, the organization has to look at the coaching. The players
are ultimately responsible, but it is a lot easier to change the
coaches and unfortunately, RW is not Scotty Bowman.
For years I've thought the Sharks could use a player who is like
Tyson Nash was in his early career with the Blues, someone to get on
the ice an stir things up. I think aggravating the opponent and
causing them get physical with the Sharks would tend to get the Sharks
to play more aggressively, and I don't mean just physically.
So far this season the Sharks remind me of the NBA, just going
through the motions until the playoffs.
 >> Stay informed about: lip service