This place seems to be fairly quiet...

"MarioR" <marior DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%Imcg.181338$7a.76401@pd7tw1no...
> Yes, all those teams were profitable.

No, actually they weren't, with perhaps the exception of the Rangers,
maybe. And that's only because the Rangers have their own TV contract.

> Where DO you get your information? The Levitt report? LOL!! Again. Start
> that conversation on a Detoit or NYR board and start getting informed.

LOL, and where do THEY get their information? Besides which, my argument
was for the league as a WHOLE, not just the few richer teams.

> They could because their owners operations were profitable. Its really
> quite
> simple.

Where exactly do you get this impression? You say that the Levitt report
isn't accurate because it didn't take into account ALL the owners' revenue
streams and thereby misrepresented their total revenues. Yet now you're
coming out and saying that they were "profitable" as if you KNOW how much
they made after all costs? Do you realize you're being self-contradictory
here?

> How about Iggy? Dallas has drafted fine. Certainly much better than us.

Is Iggy in Dallas? I'm talking about how the Stars built their
Cup-winning team. Iggy was traded for Niewendyk and his big salary.
Basically, the Stars at the time took advantage of a small-market team
(Calgary) to get a big-name player who helped them win a Cup. That Iggy
turned out to be a great player doesn't change that because NO ONE really
knows how a draft pick will turn out until he's played at least 2-3 seasons
in this league.

> Their prospects?!? Name 3 oiler drafted players in the last 15 years that
> we lost to free agency. herein lies the other rub.

You're missing the point again, Mario. It doesn't matter HOW a team gets
its players: trades, drafting, signing UFA's, RFA's etc. My point is that
the difference between a team like Detroit and a team like Edmonton in the
old days was that the Wings could keep a player once he reached his prime as
a player while the Oilers had to either trade him for more prospects/lesser
players or just let him go in free agency. Good drafting helps a
small-market team, but that's assuming that such players immediately help
their team instead of taking time to develop like most do.

> Yes, but you've cast a jaundiced eye at the operations of many of the
> elite
> teams and have suggested that economics is 95% of the reason they competed
> and we couldn't. This discounts the actual proper running of the orgs as
> important. Inconsistency in your statements create confusion.

"Proper runnign of the orgs." I never said that any GM with money is
automatically talentless or that money is the sole crutch of a rich team for
building a Cup winner. Lacroix is a good example of a GM that spent his
money wisely while in Colorado- you could argue the same for Holland in
Detroit. They know how to evaluate talent and bring the right players in to
help their teams win a Cup. But if you've got a situation where you've got
2 GM's competing for the services of a single talented player, what's the
deciding factor? Money. You're going to say the player will also look at
which team has the better chance to win a Cup as well, but what was that
based on in the old NHL? Money! Guys like Holland and Lacroix can evaluate
talent but more importantly they had the financial backing to keep the
talent that they found. Lowe's done a pretty good job here too, but unlike
those other 2 his hands are tied when it comes to keeping them around when
they get close to or reach their peaks.

The Oilers' front office maintain a strict budget for player salaries so
that they could come out of a season with either a slim profit or a minimal
loss. They lose money in the regular season still- they need the playoffs
to offset that and help pay off their deficit. The best thing about the new
CBA is that now the Oilers have a chance to compete come playoff-time which
means more money for the org which means a time when they can actually start
to increase the budget for players so that Lowe isn't playing with one hand
tied behind his back. I think the Oilers organization has been very well
run, otherwise they probably wouldn't still be in this city.

> Again indicating that economics was 95% of the resoan some temas were
> successful and others weren't is quite clear in minimizing to 5% any other
> significant variable like for instance high competency in orgs.

We'll see now how "competent" guys like Holland and Lacroix really are in
the new NHL era. Oops, forgot to add that Lacroix already stepped down
after his Avs were routed by Anaheim.

Ragnarok73
--
"Life is warfare and the sojourn of a stranger in a strange land."
- Marcus Aurelius
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

"Ragnarok73" <ryoga73 RemoveThis @telus.net> wrote in message
news:7qqcg.26402$Fl1.1538@edtnps89...
>
> "MarioR" <marior RemoveThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:%Imcg.181338$7a.76401@pd7tw1no...
> > Yes, all those teams were profitable.
>
> No, actually they weren't, with perhaps the exception of the Rangers,
> maybe. And that's only because the Rangers have their own TV contract.
>
> > Where DO you get your information? The Levitt report? LOL!! Again. Start
> > that conversation on a Detoit or NYR board and start getting informed.
>
> LOL, and where do THEY get their information? Besides which, my
argument
> was for the league as a WHOLE, not just the few richer teams.

Well informed fans of each team tend to know a lot more about the income
streams, corrolary's investments, of the respective owners than you or I
would. The stituation here is much different as with several minority
partner owners we don't get any kind of accurate picture or take of
connections but when an owner in another market owns the TV Station, the
cable station, the meat plants, breweries, merchandise sweatshops, you get a
broader sense of the total income involved. But also theres many articles,
events, public knowledge that occasionally comes available in other markets
that gets well scrutinized. Same scrutiny happened her ewith pocklington.

For example one fellow who used to show up here gave us a very detailed look
at MLSE and their various holdings in Toronto area including the raptors and
the Ontario teachers pension fund the largest single pension fund in Canada.
If anybody told you the Maple leafs were losing $ you should know it to be
a bold faced lie. They even own the bloody raptors as an afterthought minor
investment..
>
> > They could because their owners operations were profitable. Its really
> > quite
> > simple.
>
> Where exactly do you get this impression? You say that the Levitt
report
> isn't accurate because it didn't take into account ALL the owners' revenue
> streams and thereby misrepresented their total revenues. Yet now you're
> coming out and saying that they were "profitable" as if you KNOW how much
> they made after all costs? Do you realize you're being self-contradictory
> here?

No, I've read, in detail, much better and more detailed income summaries
than the Levitt report. I've also as I stated read far more, on the typicl
reported, vs earned, income of pro sports clubs. Do even a modicum of
independent research and then try to come back to this....
>
> > How about Iggy? Dallas has drafted fine. Certainly much better than us.
>
> Is Iggy in Dallas? I'm talking about how the Stars built their
> Cup-winning team. Iggy was traded for Niewendyk and his big salary.
> Basically, the Stars at the time took advantage of a small-market team
> (Calgary) to get a big-name player who helped them win a Cup. That Iggy
> turned out to be a great player doesn't change that because NO ONE really
> knows how a draft pick will turn out until he's played at least 2-3
seasons
> in this league.

The above is argueing for the sake of arguing. Dallas drafts better than
Edmonton, isn't even close. Next.
Dallas drafted Iggy, from St. Albert., right under our bloody noses from
thousands of miles away, with their 11th pick while we took the immortal
Steve Kelly with the 6th pick. Shane Doan. you'll recall, was also
available. Pre -Lowe, yes, but you for some reason tried to rebut the Iggy
angle.
>
> > Their prospects?!? Name 3 oiler drafted players in the last 15 years
that
> > we lost to free agency. herein lies the other rub.
>
> You're missing the point again, Mario. It doesn't matter HOW a team
gets
> its players: trades, drafting, signing UFA's, RFA's etc. My point is that
> the difference between a team like Detroit and a team like Edmonton in the
> old days was that the Wings could keep a player once he reached his prime
as
> a player while the Oilers had to either trade him for more
prospects/lesser
> players or just let him go in free agency. Good drafting helps a
> small-market team, but that's assuming that such players immediately help
> their team instead of taking time to develop like most do.

and my point which is equally tenable is that its helpful to have draft
picks that occasionally result in an actual useable player. Iggy was
drafted, well, and became a resource that Dallas parlayed into a key trade
and a Stanley Cup win. They knew pretty much what they had but augmented
their lineup for a successful cup run. Win Win deal.
The Oil, with proper scouting instead of buddy drinking network could've had
vast resources of players that we could have as assets to do with what we
would. Do you ever give thought to the fact that the majority of players
are from Canada and that it should be easier for a Canadian team to properly
scout, and draft, Canadian players? I'm amazed how poorly we do in this
regard and that it only gets worse in Europe where we don't have any close
range contact proprietary information.


>
> > Yes, but you've cast a jaundiced eye at the operations of many of the
> > elite
> > teams and have suggested that economics is 95% of the reason they
competed
> > and we couldn't. This discounts the actual proper running of the orgs as
> > important. Inconsistency in your statements create confusion.
>
> "Proper runnign of the orgs." I never said that any GM with money is
> automatically talentless or that money is the sole crutch of a rich team
for
> building a Cup winner. Lacroix is a good example of a GM that spent his
> money wisely while in Colorado- you could argue the same for Holland in
> Detroit. They know how to evaluate talent and bring the right players in
to
> help their teams win a Cup. But if you've got a situation where you've
got
> 2 GM's competing for the services of a single talented player, what's the
> deciding factor? Money. You're going to say the player will also look at
> which team has the better chance to win a Cup as well, but what was that
> based on in the old NHL? Money! Guys like Holland and Lacroix can
evaluate
> talent but more importantly they had the financial backing to keep the
> talent that they found. Lowe's done a pretty good job here too, but
unlike
> those other 2 his hands are tied when it comes to keeping them around when
> they get close to or reach their peaks.

Fair enough.
>
> The Oilers' front office maintain a strict budget for player salaries so
> that they could come out of a season with either a slim profit or a
minimal
> loss. They lose money in the regular season still- they need the playoffs
> to offset that and help pay off their deficit. The best thing about the
new
> CBA is that now the Oilers have a chance to compete come playoff-time
which
> means more money for the org which means a time when they can actually
start
> to increase the budget for players so that Lowe isn't playing with one
hand
> tied behind his back. I think the Oilers organization has been very well
> run, otherwise they probably wouldn't still be in this city.

I'll grant its been better run lately but still many questionable decisions
some of which I've detailed.

>
> > Again indicating that economics was 95% of the resoan some temas were
> > successful and others weren't is quite clear in minimizing to 5% any
other
> > significant variable like for instance high competency in orgs.
>
> We'll see now how "competent" guys like Holland and Lacroix really are
in
> the new NHL era. Oops, forgot to add that Lacroix already stepped down
> after his Avs were routed by Anaheim.

Really unnecessary for Lacroix to do that IMO and probably tired of the
game. You'll counter that he got out when the getting out was good. ;)
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

"Rod's news" <rod.gram DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:0Cmcg.181343$P01.29159@pd7tw3no...
> we ALL partake :)

I don't, which was one of the whole points of this long thread to begin
with.

>> Yeah, 95% is a part of 100%, Rod.
>
> Yes ...... but I'm not neccessarily sold on 95%

Take a look at the last few seasons before this one then come up with an
alternate theory why Detroit, Dallas, Colorado, New Jersey, and the Rangers
have every Cup except for the one in 2004. Tell me that the Lightning are a
"small-market" team when their owner can easily afford to spend $45M+ to
retain that team (by his own words).

> I am simply saying that all the teams in the final 4 (possibly excepting
> buffalo) have HIGH PRICED UFA'S in their line-ups.

The Oilers TRADED for Pronger and Peca, lest we forget.

Ragnarok73
--
"Life is warfare and the sojourn of a stranger in a strange land."
- Marcus Aurelius
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

"MarioR" <marior.DeleteThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:w0ucg.183725$WI1.34854@pd7tw2no...
> Well informed fans of each team tend to know a lot more about the income
> streams, corrolary's investments, of the respective owners than you or I
> would. The stituation here is much different as with several minority
> partner owners we don't get any kind of accurate picture or take of
> connections but when an owner in another market owns the TV Station, the
> cable station, the meat plants, breweries, merchandise sweatshops, you get
> a
> broader sense of the total income involved. But also theres many articles,
> events, public knowledge that occasionally comes available in other
> markets
> that gets well scrutinized. Same scrutiny happened her ewith pocklington.

This is pure speculation at best. No one except the owners (or more
accurately their accountants) knows the exact state of a team's finances.
No one, period. I'm not basing my opinion on detailed knowledge that isn't
available to the public but on the simple economic reality of the NHL.
They're not a big league at all in terms of popularity but their owners were
spending like it- that led to a problem with both parity and financial
viability.

> For example one fellow who used to show up here gave us a very detailed
> look
> at MLSE and their various holdings in Toronto area including the raptors
> and
> the Ontario teachers pension fund the largest single pension fund in
> Canada.
> If anybody told you the Maple leafs were losing $ you should know it to
> be
> a bold faced lie. They even own the bloody raptors as an afterthought
> minor
> investment..

So just because the Raptors are backed by an organization that has access
to a huge pool of money they're "not losing money"? This is *interesting*
logic, Mario. That's like saying a business is doing well because it's got
an endless well of money sinking into it. Having a big well of money
doesn't change the fact that an sports operation isn't making a profit.

> No, I've read, in detail, much better and more detailed income summaries
> than the Levitt report. I've also as I stated read far more, on the typicl
> reported, vs earned, income of pro sports clubs. Do even a modicum of
> independent research and then try to come back to this....

Tell me where I can find such wells of knowledge, Mario. I'd love to see
these detailed income summaries by people who've had easier access than
Levitt apparently has to the inner financial workings of each and every
team. In the end, none of this changes the simple fact that the old NHL was
failing in terms of competitive balance and economic viability.

> The above is argueing for the sake of arguing. Dallas drafts better than
> Edmonton, isn't even close. Next.
> Dallas drafted Iggy, from St. Albert., right under our bloody noses from
> thousands of miles away, with their 11th pick while we took the immortal
> Steve Kelly with the 6th pick. Shane Doan. you'll recall, was also
> available. Pre -Lowe, yes, but you for some reason tried to rebut the Iggy
> angle.

Because you missed the original point which is that Dallas didn't build
its team through draft picks but mainly through trades and free agent
signings. Iggy went with a no-name (Corey Millen) to Calgary in exchange
for Niewendyk whom the Flames could no longer afford to pay. It was yet
another example of a big-money team taking advantage of a small-market club
to bolster its own roster. So Dallas drafted Iggy- in the end he didn't
help them win a Cup and in hindsight it was still a good deal for them to
get a skilled veteran who did.

> and my point which is equally tenable is that its helpful to have draft
> picks that occasionally result in an actual useable player. Iggy was
> drafted, well, and became a resource that Dallas parlayed into a key trade
> and a Stanley Cup win. They knew pretty much what they had but augmented
> their lineup for a successful cup run. Win Win deal.
> The Oil, with proper scouting instead of buddy drinking network could've
> had
> vast resources of players that we could have as assets to do with what we
> would. Do you ever give thought to the fact that the majority of players
> are from Canada and that it should be easier for a Canadian team to
> properly
> scout, and draft, Canadian players? I'm amazed how poorly we do in this
> regard and that it only gets worse in Europe where we don't have any close
> range contact proprietary information.

So with a better scouting staff, the Oilers would have just come up with
MORE players who'd be shipped off once they became too expensive. As you
say, it's a bit early to judge Lowe's skills as a GM in this regard until
the full effect of the new CBA can be felt throughout the league.

> I'll grant its been better run lately but still many questionable
> decisions
> some of which I've detailed.

Perhaps, but again a rich GM has more options available than a poor GM. A
poor GM with any talent is forced to think long-term. Just about every year
is a rebuilding year as players who've blossomed the year before become too
expensive to keep. Now that we're in a new era, let's see how things now
work out for the Oilers. Based on this playoff run, it's not all bad so
far, now is it?

> Really unnecessary for Lacroix to do that IMO and probably tired of the
> game. You'll counter that he got out when the getting out was good. ;)

Remember one of my earlier responses? Lacroix could probably do well in
the new NHL. Teams like the Avs will still be able to spend right up to the
cap ceiling, so they'll still have an advantage over the poorer teams albeit
one that isn't nearly as immense as it was 2 years ago.

Ragnarok73
--
"Life is warfare and the sojourn of a stranger in a strange land."
- Marcus Aurelius
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

"Greg Prather" <pratherg.DeleteThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>
> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
> any UFA's at all.

UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
$6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of in
the past.
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

Rod's news wrote:
> "Greg Prather" <pratherg RemoveThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>> any UFA's at all.
>
> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of in
> the past.
>
>
ok, let me explain it to you slowly...the Oilers only signed Todd Harvey
(see my follow-up note to the one above) at about $500,000 per yr.....to
get those $6.5 mill and $3.9 mill (Peca's actual salary, not your
inflated version)...the Oilers TRADED Brewer (approx. 2.5 mill),
Woywitka ($900K in NHL), and Doug Lynch (I think $600K in the NHL)
approx $4 mill for Pronger's $6.2 mill (not your inflated
number...actually, I think it is even lower than that)..so only $2.2
mill extra for one guy who is worth 2-3 times what the 3 they gave up
were really worth....and to get Peca, they traded York ($1.9 mill) - so
added another $2 mill of contract

Plus they dumped what's-his-name to Boston before the season for Yan
Stastny (who they shipped back later)....another $700K or so lopped off

.....soooo, the point is...no UFA's (i.e. NOT just adding salary without
dropping some)...and though they added $4 mill in salary, they've
already recouped the investment 3-4 times in these playoffs....the point
here is that Lowe has done a good job improving the team without going
out and buying his way out of trouble in the same scale as the St.
Louis' and Avs and Wings and Stars and Rangers and Flyers of the past
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

Rod's news wrote:
> "Greg Prather" <pratherg.DeleteThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>> any UFA's at all.
>
> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of in
> the past.
>
>
btw...I believe they offered Weight about $6 mill before he turned his
nose up at it for over $9 mill from St. Louis after forcing Lowe to
trade him
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

Greg Prather wrote:
> Rod's news wrote:
> > "Greg Prather" <pratherg DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
> >> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
> >> any UFA's at all.
> >
> > UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
> > $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of in
> > the past.
> >
> >
> btw...I believe they offered Weight about $6 mill before he turned his
> nose up at it for over $9 mill from St. Louis after forcing Lowe to
> trade him

So what RN should have said is that it was unheard of to get
a player with a 5 year deal worth $6.5M/.76 = $8.6M per year.
BTW, I believe Weight's deal was for $40M over 5 years, with $9M
the first year. In his last year the deal was $7.5M, since reduced
under the CBA to $5.7M. So if he was offered a 5 year deal for
$30M by the Oilers, he'd be making $4.6M as an Oiler.
So if the 'Canes fail to win the Cup, and the Oilers do, Weight
will spend the rest of his life arguing that earning an additional
$1.2M
per year was worth not winning a Cup. Please, please hockey gods,
make this so.
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

FTR .... what was the Oil's salary base in 03/04 and i05/06 ??

And if the new cba had nothing to do with Pronger and Peca arriving on the
scene - then I'd argue that KL was asleep at the wheel for half a decade.


"Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:LOxcg.182867$7a.42804@pd7tw1no...
> Rod's news wrote:
>> "Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>>> any UFA's at all.
>>
>> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
>> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of
>> in the past.
>>
>>
> ok, let me explain it to you slowly...the Oilers only signed Todd Harvey
> (see my follow-up note to the one above) at about $500,000 per yr.....to
> get those $6.5 mill and $3.9 mill (Peca's actual salary, not your inflated
> version)...the Oilers TRADED Brewer (approx. 2.5 mill), Woywitka ($900K in
> NHL), and Doug Lynch (I think $600K in the NHL) approx $4 mill for
> Pronger's $6.2 mill (not your inflated number...actually, I think it is
> even lower than that)..so only $2.2 mill extra for one guy who is worth
> 2-3 times what the 3 they gave up were really worth....and to get Peca,
> they traded York ($1.9 mill) - so added another $2 mill of contract
>
> Plus they dumped what's-his-name to Boston before the season for Yan
> Stastny (who they shipped back later)....another $700K or so lopped off
>
> ....soooo, the point is...no UFA's (i.e. NOT just adding salary without
> dropping some)...and though they added $4 mill in salary, they've already
> recouped the investment 3-4 times in these playoffs....the point here is
> that Lowe has done a good job improving the team without going out and
> buying his way out of trouble in the same scale as the St. Louis' and Avs
> and Wings and Stars and Rangers and Flyers of the past
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

"Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:7Qxcg.184218$WI1.126981@pd7tw2no...
> Rod's news wrote:
>> "Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>>> any UFA's at all.
>>
>> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
>> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of
>> in the past.
>>
>>
> btw...I believe they offered Weight about $6 mill before he turned his
> nose up at it for over $9 mill from St. Louis after forcing Lowe to trade
> him

so you're saying that the new cba (economic landscape) has benefitted the
so_called 'small_market' teams by resulting in simply a 'spreading around'
of the big ticket items ??? (i.e. no more stamp collecting / asset
accumulations by a FEW of the wealthy franchises)
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

Rod's news wrote:
> "Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:7Qxcg.184218$WI1.126981@pd7tw2no...
>> Rod's news wrote:
>>> "Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>>>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>>>> any UFA's at all.
>>> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
>>> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of
>>> in the past.
>>>
>>>
>> btw...I believe they offered Weight about $6 mill before he turned his
>> nose up at it for over $9 mill from St. Louis after forcing Lowe to trade
>> him
>
> so you're saying that the new cba (economic landscape) has benefitted the
> so_called 'small_market' teams by resulting in simply a 'spreading around'
> of the big ticket items ??? (i.e. no more stamp collecting / asset
> accumulations by a FEW of the wealthy franchises)
>
>
basically...originally I was just commenting on the assertion that the
Oil had loaded up on UFA's which (apologies to Todd Harvey!) is
definitely NOT the case! ;-)
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

Rod's news wrote:
> FTR .... what was the Oil's salary base in 03/04 and i05/06 ??
>
> And if the new cba had nothing to do with Pronger and Peca arriving on the
> scene - then I'd argue that KL was asleep at the wheel for half a decade.
>
>
> "Greg Prather" <pratherg DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:LOxcg.182867$7a.42804@pd7tw1no...
>> Rod's news wrote:
>>> "Greg Prather" <pratherg DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>>>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>>>> any UFA's at all.
>>> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
>>> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of
>>> in the past.
>>>
>>>
>> ok, let me explain it to you slowly...the Oilers only signed Todd Harvey
>> (see my follow-up note to the one above) at about $500,000 per yr.....to
>> get those $6.5 mill and $3.9 mill (Peca's actual salary, not your inflated
>> version)...the Oilers TRADED Brewer (approx. 2.5 mill), Woywitka ($900K in
>> NHL), and Doug Lynch (I think $600K in the NHL) approx $4 mill for
>> Pronger's $6.2 mill (not your inflated number...actually, I think it is
>> even lower than that)..so only $2.2 mill extra for one guy who is worth
>> 2-3 times what the 3 they gave up were really worth....and to get Peca,
>> they traded York ($1.9 mill) - so added another $2 mill of contract
>>
>> Plus they dumped what's-his-name to Boston before the season for Yan
>> Stastny (who they shipped back later)....another $700K or so lopped off
>>
>> ....soooo, the point is...no UFA's (i.e. NOT just adding salary without
>> dropping some)...and though they added $4 mill in salary, they've already
>> recouped the investment 3-4 times in these playoffs....the point here is
>> that Lowe has done a good job improving the team without going out and
>> buying his way out of trouble in the same scale as the St. Louis' and Avs
>> and Wings and Stars and Rangers and Flyers of the past
>

not really what I said...anyway...I think it is a combination of the CBA
and (perhaps moreso) the more realistic value of the Canadian dollar.
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet... 

Mike Eisler wrote:
> Greg Prather wrote:
>> Rod's news wrote:
>>> "Greg Prather" <pratherg.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:dUrcg.182280$P01.49977@pd7tw3no...
>>>> The Oilers have no high priced UFA's in their lineup...they didn't sign
>>>> any UFA's at all.
>>> UFA', RFA's, UFO's ... don't matter. The point is that the Oilers have a
>>> $6,500,000.00 and a $4,200,000.00 player in the line-up .... UNHEARD of in
>>> the past.
>>>
>>>
>> btw...I believe they offered Weight about $6 mill before he turned his
>> nose up at it for over $9 mill from St. Louis after forcing Lowe to
>> trade him
>
> So what RN should have said is that it was unheard of to get
> a player with a 5 year deal worth $6.5M/.76 = $8.6M per year.
> BTW, I believe Weight's deal was for $40M over 5 years, with $9M
> the first year. In his last year the deal was $7.5M, since reduced
> under the CBA to $5.7M. So if he was offered a 5 year deal for
> $30M by the Oilers, he'd be making $4.6M as an Oiler.
> So if the 'Canes fail to win the Cup, and the Oilers do, Weight
> will spend the rest of his life arguing that earning an additional
> $1.2M
> per year was worth not winning a Cup. Please, please hockey gods,
> make this so.
>
Amen to that! ...serves the greedy little bugger right!
 >> Stay informed about: This place seems to be fairly quiet...