3 players won that game

"marty" wrote in message

> It might be tempting to say the Habs won because of only two players,
> Price
> and AKos. However, I'd add a third in Plekanec. Two really nice passes to
> Akos's stick. All he had to do was fire it home. Anyway, that'd be great
> news if they got going, because then we could see them and Kovalev start
> to
> light it up again.
>
> Anyway, while the Habs stole a victory there, I think this team is still
> doing fairly well for playing without Koivu and Higgins. Two and a half
> season's ago them and Ryder was the teams top line. Now, none of them are
> in the line-up and the team can still win. This team could be awesome if
> it
> could get healthy and a the Kovalev line could start clicking again, which
> it is showing signs of doing.
>
IMO the Pens were ripe for the pickin and although I would have liked to see
them win the game in more style and more convincingly, they won and thats
all that really matters. Any word how close Saku and/or Higgins are to
coming back?
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

In marty writes:

>It might be tempting to say the Habs won because of only two players, Price
>and AKos. However, I'd add a third in Plekanec. Two really nice passes to
>Akos's stick. All he had to do was fire it home. Anyway, that'd be great
>news if they got going, because then we could see them and Kovalev start to
>light it up again.

>Anyway, while the Habs stole a victory there, I think this team is still
>doing fairly well for playing without Koivu and Higgins. Two and a half
>season's ago them and Ryder was the teams top line. Now, none of them are
>in the line-up and the team can still win. This team could be awesome if it
>could get healthy and a the Kovalev line could start clicking again, which
>it is showing signs of doing.

Because this team does not have players scoring reguralrly +2 points a
game, but the best are around 0.8 per game, there must be more than two
or them doing it and with different lines. It is possible to win
reguralrly if the team is scoring three or more goals a game, with two
or less it is difficult.

You have a point, that if they can win with one of the top lines "idle",
they should be formidable if two lines are scoring with some regularity.
When Koivu and Higgins will come back and if they are in playing shape,
the Canadiens can start to build from the fact that they have two lines,
that should score about one goal a game: AKostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
and Higgins - Koivu - D'Agostini. Then we have a line that is just about
as likely to have a goal per game: Alex Tanguay - Robert Lang -
SKostitsyn. Actually this line has two of the top goal scorers at the
moment. The fourth line is built around Lapierre with Begin and
Latendresse on the wings and we have Kostopoulos as a spare, used
Latendresse is promoted to the three other lines because of injury or
lack of effort of someone.

With Koivu back we have two powerplay units and the depth the team has
been talking about is visible.

- Lauri Tarkkonen
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

In j.bauch.DeleteThis@comcast.net writes:

>On Dec 28, 12:17=A0pm, marty wrote:
>> It might be tempting to say the Habs won because of only two players, Pri=
>ce
>> and AKos. However, I'd add a third in Plekanec. Two really nice passes to
>> Akos's stick. All he had to do was fire it home. Anyway, that'd be great
>> news if they got going, because then we could see them and Kovalev start =
>to
>> light it up again.

>You're not going to catch me grumbling about a win on the road against
>last year's Cup finalist because not enough players had good games.
>Sure, it's nice to see the Habs firing on all cylinders, but teams
>have to find ways to win when that's not the case. I thought that's
>why we had all these cliches about "your best players need to be your
>best players" and "sometimes your star just has to put the rest of the
>team on his back and carry them."

I do not mind the habs winning, even in the case when Steve Begin and
Francis Bouillion were their best players. But I am not kidding that
they will be better than Saku Koivi, Alexei Kovalev or Andrei Markov,
when these players have a good game. If the Canadiens win, without their
best players being the best, it means that the best players have not had
a god game and even a number of the oppostiion top players have had an
off night. This will not happen regularly, becouse if it would then
Begin et all. would be the Habs best players.

If the Canadiens loose with the second string players being the best, it
means that the team has not used all the potential available, because
the top players did not even match the performance of the second
stringers.

>> Anyway, while the Habs stole a victory there, I think this team is still
>> doing fairly well for playing without Koivu and Higgins. Two and a half
>> season's ago them and Ryder was the teams top line. Now, none of them are
>> in the line-up and the team can still win. This team could be awesome if =
>it
>> could get healthy and a the Kovalev line could start clicking again, whic=
>h
>> it is showing signs of doing.

>There's plenty to feel good about this season.

>Last year the Habs got rather lucky with injuries. This year has been
>more "normal," with the extended absence of Komisarek, and now Koivu
>and Higgins missing significant time.

>The team is in a decent position in the standings despite those
>injuries, despite the faltering of the power play that was such a
>critical part of last year's success, and despite goal-scoring slumps
>from Kovalev and Andrei Kostitsyn.

But Kovalev has been getting points in form of assists, and his point
production is very near his last season and his career average. You can
say, that Saku Koivu has produced more goals than one could expect.

>Nobody's even asking any more whether last year's dodgy playoff
>performance has hurt Carey Price's confidence.

I do not believe this is a very relevant question. He is mentally strong
kid and knows that if you let in one "softie", you just have to catch
the nex one.

>D'Agostini has been a pleasant surprise. Gorges is coming in to his
>own, blunting the impact of Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's
>regression.

Nobody can expect D'Agostini to score 0.5 goals and 0.66 points per
game. Tanguay 26/32=0.813, Kovalev 27/34=0.794, Koivu 22/28=0.786 and
Markov 26/34=0.765 are the best in the team.

>Carbo seems to have the dressing room under control: the media tried
>to create some controversy around Sergei and Latendresse's benchings,
>but that hasn't gone anywhere.

This is perhaps the most important point. I bet that the Bruins
formidable run is due to Claude Julien getting the whole team under
control and on the same page of his playbook. The change from last year
regular season, when the Canadiens dominated them by winning all 8 games
is tremendous. Julien has found the goal scorer in Ryder, that
Carbonneau could not find.

>Of course there are areas of concern, but overall I feel pretty good
>about where the Habs are right now.

Carbo said, that the Canadiens are just where he wanted them to be and
they are on the way to be a contender.

- Lauri Tarkkonen
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

>Gorges is coming in to his own, blunting the impact of
>Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's regression.
>
Only 2 D men have a higher +/- than George's +17
(he is tied for 9th in the league overall). Not bad.
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

On Dec 29, 6:08 pm, marty wrote:
> This is probably going to go down as Gainey's finest trade if Pacioritty
> turns out to be a top-6 forward.

I'm not faulting you for this, because it's a pretty common view, but
that's a weird way to evaluate a trade, don't you think? The deal was
for a first round pick. I doubt the Habs made the deal specifically
planning to take Pacioretty a couple of months later; at the time,
they couldn't know exactly where SJ would finish or whether any
particular player would be available then. For that matter, if
Pacioretty blows out his knee tomorrow and never plays again, does it
suddenly become a worse trade?

Jim
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

On Dec 29, 9:08 pm, marty wrote:
> tarkk....TakeThisOut@cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote in
> @oravannahka.helsinki.fi:
>
> > In "bloke" writes:
>
> >>>Gorges is coming in to his own, blunting the impact of
> >>>Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's regression.
>
> >>Only 2 D men have a higher +/- than George's +17
> >>(he is tied for 9th in the league overall). Not bad.
>
> > He seems to be very popular among his teammates and good team player
> > even in that respect. It took Carbonneau some time to see what he had,
> > but it was good Josh himself never lost his confidence, but kept on
> > working and eventually it paid off. I think he has still some upside, he
> > could practice his onetimers from the point.
>
> > I think he has still some upside.
>
> It's hard to believe not only was he undrafted, he is already in his third
> NHL season. He's actually younger than O'Byrne!
>
> This is probably going to go down as Gainey's finest trade if Pacioritty
> turns out to be a top-6 forward.
>
> Marty

Montreal "stole" a game? Hey now, dont confuse stealing a game with
taking advantage of your sweater. Don't confuse that third Montreal
goal with any shot any moron in a pair of shorts couldnt stop. Hey
look, same thing tonight against Florida. Super hot goalie with league
leading save percentage sucks against Montreal. Hmmmmm.
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

In "bloke" writes:

>>Gorges is coming in to his own, blunting the impact of
>>Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's regression.
>>
>Only 2 D men have a higher +/- than George's +17
>(he is tied for 9th in the league overall). Not bad.

He seems to be very popular among his teammates and good team player
even in that respect. It took Carbonneau some time to see what he had,
but it was good Josh himself never lost his confidence, but kept on
working and eventually it paid off. I think he has still some upside, he
could practice his onetimers from the point.

I think he has still some upside.

- Lauri Tarkkonen
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

tarkkone.RemoveThis@cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote in
@oravannahka.helsinki.fi:

> In "bloke" writes:
>
>>>Gorges is coming in to his own, blunting the impact of
>>>Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's regression.
>>>
>>Only 2 D men have a higher +/- than George's +17
>>(he is tied for 9th in the league overall). Not bad.
>
> He seems to be very popular among his teammates and good team player
> even in that respect. It took Carbonneau some time to see what he had,
> but it was good Josh himself never lost his confidence, but kept on
> working and eventually it paid off. I think he has still some upside, he
> could practice his onetimers from the point.
>
> I think he has still some upside.

It's hard to believe not only was he undrafted, he is already in his third
NHL season. He's actually younger than O'Byrne!

This is probably going to go down as Gainey's finest trade if Pacioritty
turns out to be a top-6 forward.

Marty
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

j.bauch RemoveThis @comcast.net wrote in
ffab5b519b8e RemoveThis @x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 29, 6:08 pm, marty wrote:
>> This is probably going to go down as Gainey's finest trade if
Pacioritty
>> turns out to be a top-6 forward.
>
> I'm not faulting you for this, because it's a pretty common view, but
> that's a weird way to evaluate a trade, don't you think? The deal was
> for a first round pick. I doubt the Habs made the deal specifically
> planning to take Pacioretty a couple of months later; at the time,
> they couldn't know exactly where SJ would finish or whether any
> particular player would be available then. For that matter, if
> Pacioretty blows out his knee tomorrow and never plays again, does it
> suddenly become a worse trade?


Well, I guess I'm just flowing along with the view that 99% of people
take, which is to include the result of the draft pick when draft picks
are swapped. I think the view does have some validity when the swap
includes a 1st rounder, since both teams realize there is a decent
probability that whomever is drafted will play in the NHL as a player of
some note. I might defer to your view if Montreal scored a great prospect
with a 4th round pick, as the chances of that would have been quite low,
but this was a 1st rounder and at the time most of us were quite
impressed a rather inconsistent Rivet got us that in return plus another
player. Now that the young player has developed into a d-man who might
already be a better player than Rivet, well, that's a clever trade and a
big win.

Of course there's fluke involved in every trade somewhat. We all know
that. Hell, who knew when Savard was traded for Chelios that Savard would
be ruined by Burns almost immediately, and Chelios would be an ageless
wonder? That's the way it goes.

A 1st rounder and a good, young d-man who's developing into a
surprisingly effective jack-of-all-trades is more than I thought was
possible for a pending UFA d-man who wasn't playing well at the time.

Marty
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

"Same old same old." wrote in


> Montreal "stole" a game? Hey now, dont confuse stealing a game with
> taking advantage of your sweater. Don't confuse that third Montreal
> goal with any shot any moron in a pair of shorts couldnt stop. Hey
> look, same thing tonight against Florida. Super hot goalie with league
> leading save percentage sucks against Montreal. Hmmmmm.
>

Thanks for stopping by.
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

Same old same old. wrote:
> On Dec 29, 9:08 pm, marty wrote:
>> tarkk... DeleteThis @cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote in
>> @oravannahka.helsinki.fi:
>>
>>> In "bloke" writes:
>>>>> Gorges is coming in to his own, blunting the impact of
>>>>> Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's regression.
>>>> Only 2 D men have a higher +/- than George's +17
>>>> (he is tied for 9th in the league overall). Not bad.
>>> He seems to be very popular among his teammates and good team player
>>> even in that respect. It took Carbonneau some time to see what he had,
>>> but it was good Josh himself never lost his confidence, but kept on
>>> working and eventually it paid off. I think he has still some upside, he
>>> could practice his onetimers from the point.
>>> I think he has still some upside.
>> It's hard to believe not only was he undrafted, he is already in his third
>> NHL season. He's actually younger than O'Byrne!
>>
>> This is probably going to go down as Gainey's finest trade if Pacioritty
>> turns out to be a top-6 forward.
>>
>> Marty
>
> Montreal "stole" a game? Hey now, dont confuse stealing a game with
> taking advantage of your sweater. Don't confuse that third Montreal
> goal with any shot any moron in a pair of shorts couldnt stop. Hey
> look, same thing tonight against Florida. Super hot goalie with league
> leading save percentage sucks against Montreal. Hmmmmm.

It's just a shame the Beaners threw away those old "winnie The Pooh"
jerseys. Then as a loser you'd at least have a laugh at the "jerseys"..
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game 

Same old same old. wrote:
> On Dec 29, 9:08 pm, marty wrote:
>> tarkk....RemoveThis@cc.helsinki.fi (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote in
>> @oravannahka.helsinki.fi:
>>
>>> In "bloke" writes:
>>>>> Gorges is coming in to his own, blunting the impact of
>>>>> Komisarek's injury and O'Byrne's regression.
>>>> Only 2 D men have a higher +/- than George's +17
>>>> (he is tied for 9th in the league overall). Not bad.
>>> He seems to be very popular among his teammates and good team player
>>> even in that respect. It took Carbonneau some time to see what he had,
>>> but it was good Josh himself never lost his confidence, but kept on
>>> working and eventually it paid off. I think he has still some upside, he
>>> could practice his onetimers from the point.
>>> I think he has still some upside.
>> It's hard to believe not only was he undrafted, he is already in his third
>> NHL season. He's actually younger than O'Byrne!
>>
>> This is probably going to go down as Gainey's finest trade if Pacioritty
>> turns out to be a top-6 forward.
>>
>> Marty
>
> Montreal "stole" a game? Hey now, dont confuse stealing a game with
> taking advantage of your sweater. Don't confuse that third Montreal
> goal with any shot any moron in a pair of shorts couldnt stop. Hey
> look, same thing tonight against Florida. Super hot goalie with league
> leading save percentage sucks against Montreal. Hmmmmm.

Saw a moron there in a pair of shorts. Was that you?!?!
 >> Stay informed about: 3 players won that game